Concerns regarding PES2022.

creimer said:
Yeah. This guy nailed things from PES.
He seems to have some source.
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Well there could be several cases, pick your poison:
1. PS5, XX, PC will be next gen then PS4 and XO will be season update too of the current enginge, gameplay again.
2. PS5, XX will be next gen then PC, PS4 and XO will be season update too of the current enginge, gameplay again.
3. PS5, XX will be next gen then PC, PS4 and XO will be a downgraded Unreal engine but with all the next gen features in gameplay...or as would Konami loves the term "hybrid".
4. PS5, XX, PC will be next gen then PS4 and XO will be a downgraded Unreal engine but with all the next gen features in gameplay...or as would Konami loves the term "hybrid".

I would say IF Konami still have some exclusive deal with Playstation or even with Xbox probably they try to push the sales of the next gen consoles for 2-3 years, hence i dont expect a true next gen PC port yet again for a while.
 
Konami needs to rewrite and re-mocap all the animations in the game.
I've always said that in FOX PES the animations look like football from the Amateur Leagues. Awkward movements, runs, turns, passes, touches, etc. very few animations just seem to be made by professional athletes.

This clip:
It looks so similar to what we see in PES games. All this awkwardness of the movements... I'm not talking about being smooth and flowing well, as it will be 100% with Unreal Engine, I'm talking about the whole choreography of the animation, aesthetically to looking professional.

It makes me think that in order to save money, much of the mocap of the animations in Konami are made by ... employees of Konami, not by professional footballers and athletes.
 
I find it very interesting that nobody thought to mention this (or at least not that I've noticed) but If they are indeed using Unreal 5, the main question will not be whether the PC version will be the same as on the new Playstation and Xbox machines but rather how well can they create a game that relies on different small things or "subsystems" like a football game does on an engine that thus far has been known to require masterful execution on the optimization side in order to run as well the engine's graphical side can look...

Unless they had their hands like super early on (perhaps even before the UE5 tech demo on PS5 was unveiled) and considering UE 5 official release is 2021 is a tad crazy to think that a game that will be released in the same year as it's engine supposed official launch might live up to its eventual potential considering how long it takes to develop a game with any hopes of not being a massive flop... Even if it doesn't differ all that much from the current UE 4, it's not like they got a vast expertise with Unreal that could translate into a PES game outside the much simpler mobile versions. It's not the same as having your own in-house created engine and having your game mature for years... I mean Fox Engine is like what? 6 years old and on PES they haven't used everything it could yeld (isn't it Metal Gear that has some really impressive cloth simulation physics?)

It's going to be pretty brutal to develop a game that's supposed to be launched like in a year on a game engine that's supposedly not "out" yet and on a company without EA's endless resources. They might need to have every person in the company's payroll to not work on any other game besides this one to make it happen (unless UE 5 is uber easy and user friendly to develop on much more so than any of it's previous iterations)
 
They will do it on UE4, then they might migrate the code into UE5 which suppose to be easy but I doubt that they will release PES 2022 on UE5 since UE5 will not come out officially until the end of 2021.
 
A.A.A said:
They will do it on UE4, then they might migrate the code into UE5 which suppose to be easy but I doubt that they will release PES 2022 on UE5 since UE5 will not come out officially until the end of 2021.
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I was thinking the same thing (about it most likely being on UE4)
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Well there could be several cases, pick your poison:
1. PS5, XX, PC will be next gen then PS4 and XO will be season update too of the current enginge, gameplay again.
2. PS5, XX will be next gen then PC, PS4 and XO will be season update too of the current enginge, gameplay again.
3. PS5, XX will be next gen then PC, PS4 and XO will be a downgraded Unreal engine but with all the next gen features in gameplay...or as would Konami loves the term "hybrid".
4. PS5, XX, PC will be next gen then PS4 and XO will be a downgraded Unreal engine but with all the next gen features in gameplay...or as would Konami loves the term "hybrid".

I would say IF Konami still have some exclusive deal with Playstation or even with Xbox probably they try to push the sales of the next gen consoles for 2-3 years, hence i dont expect a true next gen PC port yet again for a while.
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So… we revealed a lot this week, huh?

The Future of PES is UNREAL. Rebuilt from the ground up for next Gen consoles, coming in 2021! ✨

#PES2021 Season Update is coming to PS4, Xbox One and PC (Steam) September 15th. 🎮

 
Are they going to repeat that Pes 2022 thing until the release in Autumn 2021? I'm already tired of it and i'm sure they are hyping it so much that by the time it will release 90% of people will be disappointed. They never learn.
 
Ameppe said:
Are they going to repeat that Pes 2022 thing until the release in Autumn 2021? I'm already tired of it and i'm sure they are hyping it so much that by the time it will release 90% of people will be disappointed. They never learn.
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Yeah. Seems like even the chance of a fresh start will not be used effectively...
it really is something that only lets me shake my head.
:NONO:
 
Sami 1999 said:
No lol.

PCs are holding back PCs. It's cause majority aren't willing to upgrade their PCs to be on par with consoles.
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That's not exactly accurate. The truth is consoles get phased out, whereas PC's don't. If PC users did what the so called "enthusiast" niche and the brands (specially Nvidia and Intel) wanted, people would be forking out shitloads of money on new graphics cards every two and a half years, when most computers (even those with harware that's 10 years old) is still perfectly capable today. The problem is back when Nvidia had their 5xx series of GPUS they tested out the waters by having a graphics card costing more than 500 bucks to see if people would fall for it and sadly they did. That's why we currently have graphics cards like the grossly overpriced RTX 2080 Ti. The still current gen consoles weren't even ground breaking upon launch back in 2013, as their octacore CPUs were more like AMD's dreadful bulldozer CPUs that despite having a shitload more cores, got their butts whooped by Intel quad core CPUs (and even hyperthreaded dual cores)
If AMD didn't pick up the pace Intel would still be milking consumers and getting away with charging 300 + bucks for a hyperthreaded quadcore... If you look at the Core i series, you had the 1st gen (Lynfield) then the 2nd gen (Sandy Bridge) was a considerable upgrade but other than that you only had a real upgrade when Coffee Lake (8th gen) was launched and that was because AMD's Ryzen SKUs cranked the heat on Intel. The CPU market has changed quite a bit in the last 3 years or so with more computing power available for good value but on the GPU front things just gotten crazy because GPUs are all overpriced (or those that aren't were when "released" - take the RX 580 for example as it's a refresh that was being sold for roughly 250 $ a year and a half or so ago and now is sold for around 170 $ which is a discount that kinda shows that it should have been the actual price to begin with realistically)

Another thing was the current and the upcoming consoles were the first to be based on x86 which caused issues with previous PC ported console games, because due to the differences in hardware meant the PC versions either ran like crap or required ridiculously high specs and in some cases even on super high end machines those would run like crap (just think of a game from the era before 4k was even an idea - the dumpster fire that goes by the name of GTA IV)
Also on the current machines, both Sony and MS tried to trick people with the 4K hype when both machines were never truely 4k capable (not in a smooth and fully playable way without resorting to dynamic scalling and blowing up the resolution of a much smaller render) so if a pc user were to buy into the 4k craze to be on par with consoles he/she would need ti buy a 1200 $ GPU and an 8 core CPU because of the consoles and 4K
 
dissectionalone said:
That's not exactly accurate. The truth is consoles get phased out, whereas PC's don't. If PC users did what the so called "enthusiast" niche and the brands (specially Nvidia and Intel) wanted, people would be forking out shitloads of money on new graphics cards every two and a half years, when most computers (even those with harware that's 10 years old) is still perfectly capable today. The problem is back when Nvidia had their 5xx series of GPUS they tested out the waters by having a graphics card costing more than 500 bucks to see if people would fall for it and sadly they did. That's why we currently have graphics cards like the grossly overpriced RTX 2080 Ti. The still current gen consoles weren't even ground breaking upon launch back in 2013, as their octacore CPUs were more like AMD's dreadful bulldozer CPUs that despite having a shitload more cores, got their butts whooped by Intel quad core CPUs (and even hyperthreaded dual cores)
If AMD didn't pick up the pace Intel would still be milking consumers and getting away with charging 300 + bucks for a hyperthreaded quadcore... If you look at the Core i series, you had the 1st gen (Lynfield) then the 2nd gen (Sandy Bridge) was a considerable upgrade but other than that you only had a real upgrade when Coffee Lake (8th gen) was launched and that was because AMD's Ryzen SKUs cranked the heat on Intel. The CPU market has changed quite a bit in the last 3 years or so with more computing power available for good value but on the GPU front things just gotten crazy because GPUs are all overpriced (or those that aren't were when "released" - take the RX 580 for example as it's a refresh that was being sold for roughly 250 $ a year and a half or so ago and now is sold for around 170 $ which is a discount that kinda shows that it should have been the actual price to begin with realistically)

Another thing was the current and the upcoming consoles were the first to be based on x86 which caused issues with previous PC ported console games, because due to the differences in hardware meant the PC versions either ran like crap or required ridiculously high specs and in some cases even on super high end machines those would run like crap (just think of a game from the era before 4k was even an idea - the dumpster fire that goes by the name of GTA IV)
Also on the current machines, both Sony and MS tried to trick people with the 4K hype when both machines were never truely 4k capable (not in a smooth and fully playable way without resorting to dynamic scalling and blowing up the resolution of a much smaller render) so if a pc user were to buy into the 4k craze to be on par with consoles he/she would need ti buy a 1200 $ GPU and an 8 core CPU because of the consoles and 4K
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Finally. I’m so glad someone knows the truth. :APPLAUD:
;)

Na, not really. I’m thinking the other way around. ;)

Anyway... it would start a whole debate been had quite a few times. Not worth it.
Enjoy what you prefer. :D
 
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dissectionalone said:
That's not exactly accurate. The truth is consoles get phased out, whereas PC's don't. If PC users did what the so called "enthusiast" niche and the brands (specially Nvidia and Intel) wanted, people would be forking out shitloads of money on new graphics cards every two and a half years, when most computers (even those with harware that's 10 years old) is still perfectly capable today. The problem is back when Nvidia had their 5xx series of GPUS they tested out the waters by having a graphics card costing more than 500 bucks to see if people would fall for it and sadly they did. That's why we currently have graphics cards like the grossly overpriced RTX 2080 Ti. The still current gen consoles weren't even ground breaking upon launch back in 2013, as their octacore CPUs were more like AMD's dreadful bulldozer CPUs that despite having a shitload more cores, got their butts whooped by Intel quad core CPUs (and even hyperthreaded dual cores)
If AMD didn't pick up the pace Intel would still be milking consumers and getting away with charging 300 + bucks for a hyperthreaded quadcore... If you look at the Core i series, you had the 1st gen (Lynfield) then the 2nd gen (Sandy Bridge) was a considerable upgrade but other than that you only had a real upgrade when Coffee Lake (8th gen) was launched and that was because AMD's Ryzen SKUs cranked the heat on Intel. The CPU market has changed quite a bit in the last 3 years or so with more computing power available for good value but on the GPU front things just gotten crazy because GPUs are all overpriced (or those that aren't were when "released" - take the RX 580 for example as it's a refresh that was being sold for roughly 250 $ a year and a half or so ago and now is sold for around 170 $ which is a discount that kinda shows that it should have been the actual price to begin with realistically)

Another thing was the current and the upcoming consoles were the first to be based on x86 which caused issues with previous PC ported console games, because due to the differences in hardware meant the PC versions either ran like crap or required ridiculously high specs and in some cases even on super high end machines those would run like crap (just think of a game from the era before 4k was even an idea - the dumpster fire that goes by the name of GTA IV)
Also on the current machines, both Sony and MS tried to trick people with the 4K hype when both machines were never truely 4k capable (not in a smooth and fully playable way without resorting to dynamic scalling and blowing up the resolution of a much smaller render) so if a pc user were to buy into the 4k craze to be on par with consoles he/she would need ti buy a 1200 $ GPU and an 8 core CPU because of the consoles and 4K
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And that proves what?

Still doesn't change the fact that majority aren't willing to upgrade to console equivalent hardware.


Agreed that nvidia and amd can get away with overpriced bs because people keep buying them. With that being said,since people are not upgrading at least once every new console, we are screwed.
 
PRO_TOO said:
Finally. I’m so glad someone knows the truth. :APPLAUD:
;)

Na, not really. I’m thinking the other way around. ;)

Anyway... it would start a whole debate been had quite a few times. Not worth it.
Enjoy what you prefer. :D
Click to expand...

I use both consoles and PCs so not entirely sure what sort of preference you're evoking, mate
 
Sami 1999 said:
And that proves what?

Still doesn't change the fact that majority aren't willing to upgrade to console equivalent hardware.


Agreed that nvidia and amd can get away with overpriced bs because people keep buying them. With that being said,since people are not upgrading at least once every new console, we are screwed.
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The thing is you didn't really have console equivalent hardware, mate. That was my point. The upcoming consoles (with the exception for Sony's proprietary SSD) have actual PC equivalent hardware. The PS5 and the XB One didn't really.

PC's are aimed at more than just entertainment purposes, which before streamers were a thing was all consoles were about. Consoles weren't used to work unless you were a game reviewer. What you call console equivalent hardware in current gen is for example a 1sr gen core i5 (from 2009 give or take) paired with something a little close to a GTX 1060. If it wasn't for AMD you definetely wouldn't see a PC needing a major upgrade after a console generation's span because CPUs would still have fewer cores which would mean game development would be hindered because in order to sell more games you need to meet the specs of the public's hardware. People won't buy games that they can't run.
 
dissectionalone said:
The thing is you didn't really have console equivalent hardware, mate. That was my point. The upcoming consoles (with the exception for Sony's proprietary SSD) have actual PC equivalent hardware. The PS5 and the XB One didn't really.

PC's are aimed at more than just entertainment purposes, which before streamers were a thing was all consoles were about. Consoles weren't used to work unless you were a game reviewer. What you call console equivalent hardware in current gen is for example a 1sr gen core i5 (from 2009 give or take) paired with something a little close to a GTX 1060. If it wasn't for AMD you definetely wouldn't see a PC needing a major upgrade after a console generation's span because CPUs would still have fewer cores which would mean game development would be hindered because in order to sell more games you need to meet the specs of the public's hardware. People won't buy games that they can't run.
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That's like just arguing for the sake of argument.

By console equivalent hardware, clearly I meant something that can run the game with next gen graphics of the consoles without blowing up and at playable framerates.
 
Sami 1999 said:
That's like just arguing for the sake of argument.

By console equivalent hardware, clearly I meant something that can run the game with next gen graphics of the consoles without blowing up and at playable framerates.
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Until the PS5 and the new Xbox are officially out what we got are the PS4 and the X one and with the exception for something like Shadow of the Tomb Raider, the pc will have better framerates at a higher resolution than both consoles that's why I pointed out those specs. in 2013 those were supposedly next gen console graphics.
We can't really just take the supposed announced teraflop metric of the upcoming consoles and imagine what hardware will be their match.
From the processor part of the APU probably something along the lines of a Ryzen 7 3700x but the actual integrated graphics portion isn't very clear yet but unless RDNA2 is dirt cheap and miles away from the current mid tier Navi GPUs I''m not sure if the consoles will leave something like a 5700XT very far behind.
 
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If the PC version does have Next-Gen parity then why are Konami not coming out and confirming it? The community has been in this position before where PC gamers were kept in the dark only to find out at the 11th hour that the PC version would stay current gen.
 
Paynekiller said:
If the PC version does have Next-Gen parity then why are Konami not coming out and confirming it? The community has been in this position before where PC gamers were kept in the dark only to find out at the 11th hour that the PC version would stay current gen.
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Because there is still so much time they probably didn't even start properly working on Pes 2022 and they don't know yet. That's why i said it's stupid they tease Unreal Engine Pes so much right now, i repeat, they never learn.

Going by logic i would think that Pes 2022 Unreal Engine will be for Ps5, XSX and PC, considering Unreal Engine is so easy to port to PC. Actually Unreal Engine is born on Pc.
 
༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Konami needs to rewrite and re-mocap all the animations in the game.
I've always said that in FOX PES the animations look like football from the Amateur Leagues. Awkward movements, runs, turns, passes, touches, etc. very few animations just seem to be made by professional athletes.

This clip:
It looks so similar to what we see in PES games. All this awkwardness of the movements... I'm not talking about being smooth and flowing well, as it will be 100% with Unreal Engine, I'm talking about the whole choreography of the animation, aesthetically to looking professional.

It makes me think that in order to save money, much of the mocap of the animations in Konami are made by ... employees of Konami, not by professional footballers and athletes.
Click to expand...
I always thought the same especially skill moves they are so slow and sluggish
 
༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Konami needs to rewrite and re-mocap all the animations in the game.
I've always said that in FOX PES the animations look like football from the Amateur Leagues. Awkward movements, runs, turns, passes, touches, etc. very few animations just seem to be made by professional athletes.

This clip:
It looks so similar to what we see in PES games. All this awkwardness of the movements... I'm not talking about being smooth and flowing well, as it will be 100% with Unreal Engine, I'm talking about the whole choreography of the animation, aesthetically to looking professional.

It makes me think that in order to save money, much of the mocap of the animations in Konami are made by ... employees of Konami, not by professional footballers and athletes.
Click to expand...

I just found this video, its about mocap for basketball, but they can surely use this for football:

 
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ayaz said:
I just found this video, its about mocap for basketball, but they can surely use this for football:

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That's probably better than what we have now, but I'd rather we didn't see this in sports games tbh.

The ball is still baked into the animations in that system, when they make sharp turns you can see the ball move on its own to stick to the player, as if they have telekinesis. The "Sharp Turns" section at 3:32 has a couple of clear examples especially if you lower the playback speed but you can see this effect throughout the video.

It could develop further so it looks more convincing, but it's still got the same gameplay limitations and potential sliding/skating and wrong ball movements as current canned animations, it would just look more dynamic and potentially feel more responsive. It's impressive but I think it's more suited to action games where character physics are not so tied to the gameplay like a sports game.

This kind of system would be far better for a football game imo;

https://blog.deepmotion.com/2018/08/07/deepdribble-simulating-basketball-with-ai/
https://www.wired.com/story/artificial-intelligence-basketball-dribbling/

Ubisoft are also researching this same kind of physics based animation system;
https://montreal.ubisoft.com/en/drecon-data-driven-responsive-control-of-physics-based-characters/
 
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A.A.A said:
They will do it on UE4, then they might migrate the code into UE5 which suppose to be easy but I doubt that they will release PES 2022 on UE5 since UE5 will not come out officially until the end of 2021.
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UE5 was probably given already to some companies before launching to general market to indie developers.
 
some twitter handle called XTower just said that PES 2022 will not be next gen on PC? Is that guy reliable?
 
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