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Classic Football Discussion

I Remeber World Cup 1994 like it was yesterday. I was a young stud of 18 years old. It was hosted in my home town of Washington, D.C.
We had tickets to Mexico vs Italy. We were at senior week at the beach, basically American tradition of renting a beach house for the week after high school graduation. We all got up at the ass crack of dawn to make the trek from the beach to Robert f Kennedy stadium. Signori was the Italian player I liked at the time, of course Baggio as well. The place was rocking. It was the most energy I have ever felt at any sporting event. So much color, passion and beer!! Ah the good old days.
 
1990 World Cup was the best in my lifetime, for me at least. Was around the time when I really got into footy (8yrs old). I loved the San Siro and just the whole atmosphere surrounding it summed up by Nessun Dorma

Roger Milla, Maradona, Gazza, Platt, Voller/Rijkaard, Toto Scillaci, Baggio, Rene Huigita,

and Caniggia
YouTube - Benjamin Massing vs Claudio Caniggia


Can't mention World Cup Italia without posting Pavarotti
YouTube - Italia 1990 world cup bbc end credits
 
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Italia 90 was fantastic, I was 10 at the time, but I can't remember enjoying a World Cup as much as that since.
 
To me vintage football would be before 1980. In 1990 I could legally vote and drink so it's odd to talk about 1994 or 1990 as vintage football, that to me is part of the modern era of football.

So, could we start by trying to define different eras of football and group them somehow? It could be an interesting exercise.
 
Alex, most football fans will consider the "vintage football era" the one when they started watching football.
For me that was long before most here.
I had the luck to be 8 years old in 1970, so i've seen the 1970 Brazil team with the likes of Pele, Jairzinho, Tostao, Gerson, Rivelino and Carlos Alberto. Perhaps the best national team ever... (not perhaps, certainly the best ever IMO).

In that same period i watched Ajax with Cruijff, Neeskens, Gerry Muhren, Keizer, Krol, Haan, Hulshoff, Blankenburg and Rep. A great team althoug at the time i preferrd their big rivals Bayern Munchen with Beckenbauer, Hoeness, Breitner and Gerd Muller.

In all those years i saw a couple of other outstanding teams: the 1982 Brazil team, Man Utd with Schmeichel, Beckham, Cantona, Scholes and Giggs, current day Barcelona and current day Spain.

But the team that impressed me most was Crvena Zvezda (Red Star Belgrade) with Beloddedidci, Jugovic, Mihajlovic, Savicevic, Binic and Pancev...they were great...but the Yugoslav civil war interfered and the players all went to other clubs...such a shame.

PS: fantastic thread...
 
Godotelli said:
1990 World Cup was the best in my lifetime, for me at least. Was around the time when I really got into footy (8yrs old). I loved the San Siro and just the whole atmosphere surrounding it summed up by Nessun Dorma

Roger Milla, Maradona, Gazza, Platt, Voller/Rijkaard, Toto Scillaci, Baggio, Rene Huigita,

and Caniggia
YouTube - Benjamin Massing vs Claudio Caniggia


Can't mention World Cup Italia without posting Pavarotti
YouTube - Italia 1990 world cup bbc end credits
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Skillaci goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal! His story was incredible..
 
very nice idea for a thread, damjan
drekkard said:
So, could we start by trying to define different eras of football and group them somehow? It could be an interesting exercise.
Click to expand...
defining eras is always a tricky exercise, for dramatic changes may occur in a single date, but their repercussions fully develop over a large span of time. then there's the problem of identifying the key change (or changes) wich marks the threshold between one era and another. even today historians can't agree on when the modern era began or when medioevo ended.

the same happens for football history. with one little advantage... all the big events wich changed football as we knew it, giving birth to modern football, occurred in a very short period, between 1990 and 1995.
1990- sacchi's revolution and the official death of man marking
1994- introduction of the 3 pts per win rule.
1995- extension of the number of substitution allowed to 3 per team.
1995- bosman ruling

each of theese events had a massive impact on the game, and it's hard to tell wich had the biggest impact (and the fact that theese events occurred in a short span of time doesn't help, as it makes it impossible to ascribe the repercussions wich each of theese revolutions brought to the game to a specific one of them).

moreover it's not like theese events determined a well defined threshold in football ("before and after that specific moment").
for instance, it's not like arrival of sacchi suddenly changed football. it took a good 3 years (in italy.... 4 or 5 for the rest of europe) to fully comprehend and digest sacchi's innovations. today the whole world plays "sacchi's football", but when did it really begin? was it '94? 1995? 1996? it's impossbile to tell when sacchi's revolution really spread worldwide.
and the same goes for the 3rd substitution rule. it took some times to coaches to adapt their tactics to the introduction of that rule.
the only changes which had an immediate impact were the bosman ruling and the introduction od the 3 pts. per win rule.

i believe we may say that this current era began roughly between 1994 and 1996.
but then again, some might add, alongside with those events i mentioned, the growing importance of television and tv rights in football (that had an impact on the game as masssive as those other events)..... but if would be much harder to establish a timing for that, i believe.

as for my personal first football memories, they date back to 1989/1990. napoli's second scudetto and italia 90. i was 10 during italia '90 and that's probably when football passion grew strong in me.
 
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wow! i wrote that last post 1 week ago... now i come here and my post is still the last one..... did i just kill the conversation or what!! :TUMBLE: :COAT:
sorry damjan, i didn't mean to kill your thread like this.... let's see if i can bring it back to life again.

on jannuary 1974 (so exactly 39 years ago) a young libero made his first appearance in juventus starting formation. his name was gaetano scirea and and that young, elegant, shy and kind-hearted guy (not exactly qualities u would expect from an italian defender in the 70s) would have become the best interpreter of his role in the history of the game (along with kaiser franz and baresi).
the weird thing is that, while the other 2 quickly reached "legend-status" (and rightly so, i might add), gaetano seems to be history's forgotten man. it's quite weird really, as there are so many football fans out there today who don't even know him, or who couldn't even recognize his face or name. even those who are usually considered as THE 2 greatests liberi in the history of the game (beckembauer and baresi) have openly admitted on tv that neither of the two were the real best ever, but gaetano... and yet probably most of u never saw him playing........ the libero whose unique elegant style and "border-line not human" timing allowed him to not receive a single red card in his entire carreer. do u have any idea how ridiculous that is? for a central defender to go through a 16 years carreer in italy without getting a single red card?! :SHOCK:

well here's the man, Gaetano Scirea. the subtitles in this video are atrociously unaccurate, but not so poor that u can't understand what they're talking about.
enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oj5KGhVqTE
 
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Thank you for posting that video. :)
Being a Juventino, I obviously know Gaetano Scirea, probably the classiest player ever. An absolute Juventus and Italy legend.:WORSHIP: Such a shame he passed away so soon. :(
 
the funniest line is when brio says:
"i've only seen him pulling an opponent's shirt once in my life. i missed a tackle and it was my man to mark, so gaetano was out of position. it was either that or letting the opponent slip away. he felt so embarassed, he went to apolosige to his opponent (the one whose shirt he pulled) afterwards".

such an attitude would sound extremely unusual today..... but it was absolutely unimmaginable in the 70s (when football was a much harder, tougher sport). :WORSHIP:
 
Never saw Scirea play, unfortunately. A pitty that watching documentaries and little bits of play can't do justice to a player. Even harder when the qualities of a player are things which normally won't make it into any highlight reel.

I do love this kind of players, though, the ones that make the teams work. And personally I always appreciate class, intelligence and tactical players, so it seems I would have loved to watch him play.

That thing about pulling a shirt and going to apologize later is great. Sometimes I do this in the sunday league I play (apologizing, not pulling the shirt) and the saddest part of it is that opponents often look surprised and look me as if I was an alien.

I love how on the 70s you could find some honest and classy players like Scirea and Beckenbauer. But on the other side, it was generally allowed to crush people ankles to some point, and watching matches from the 70s I often find myself shocked at some of the tackles, which are bordering direct violence.
 
When my son plays, i even applaud for goals from the other team (as a coach) some other parents think that i'm totally mad...
 
drekkard said:
I love how on the 70s you could find some honest and classy players like Scirea and Beckenbauer. But on the other side, it was generally allowed to crush people ankles to some point, and watching matches from the 70s I often find myself shocked at some of the tackles, which are bordering direct violence.
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yeah, there was something brutal and romantic about defending those days. however beckembauer and scirea weren't exactly coetaneous; kaiser franz played between the 60s and the 70s, while scirea played between the 70s and the 80s.
kanoute said:
and what about Bergomi, lo zio? I'd like to hear about him if/when you've time to tell a thing or two.
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oh man what a freak of nature lo zio was! i might start by explaining his nickname: "lo zio" means "the uncle" in italian. legend has it bearzot (italy '82 coach) gave him this nickname, as he was amazed at how a 19 years old kid could show such composure and vision (wich as usually veteran's qualities).
he belongs to the last generation of man markers (wich already gives him a legendary aura). add to that the fact that he also happened to be one of the best man markers that ever graced a football pitch and u can understand why he has such an epic reputation.
to be fair though, bergomi was more than that. he had a great passing game and a regista's vision, wich explains why later in his carrer he turned into a libero (keep in mind, going fromn sideback to libero is a huge change.... it's something much more complicated than going from sideback to centreback, as in the man marking days the libero used to play a completely different game from any other defender).

legends always grow bigger with time, so now most people mention him as a world class libero.... that's not true. he was a very good libero, nothing more than that.... but the fact he was even just able to play in that role with good results is amazing as no other sideback ever played in that position before (nor after).

but whereas as a libero he was just above average, as a rightback he was incredible. think of a player with dani alves stamina, zanetti's acceleration, cafu's shooting and maldini's defending.
the sidebacks had a really hard life in the days of man marking, as they were the ones marking the opponent's supporting strikers and inside forwards (wich were the 2 players who used to cover most ground during the game). and yet despite being assigned with such a weary task, beppe had so much energy and stamina that he often ventured forward. i just checked on wikipedia and apparently he scored 23 goals in his club carreer (+ 6 goals with italy). now 23 goals would already be considered an impressive number in modern football (that's exactly how many goals dani alves scored in his entire carreer)....... but actually it's even more impressive than that. u see modern sidebacks have so much more freedom than 80s sidebacks. man marking means u have to follow "your man" like a shadow for the entire game and shut him down. there's no margin for error (as there's no defensive line) and there's no room for anything else than that in your game, so the mere idea of an "offensive rightback" was ridiculous in those days. sidebacks used to go an entire carreer with 4 or 5 goals in their curricula back then.... and those were "offensive" sidebacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz5INDC5r_0

but while he was very good offensively, defensively he was simply unplayable. the story of how he turned into a libero might give u an idea of how good a defender he was. it was so impossible to go past him that other teams coaches started saying their supporting strikers to switch sides and attack from the centre (u might call it the "stay away from bergomi rule"). seeing this was becoming a common pattern and every talented player started avoiding bergomi range, trapattoni (inter coach in the late 80s) moved bergomi to the centre (as a libero), in order to allow him to mark the most threatening offensive player, wherever they were.

for a very short period of time (between 86 and 88) italy displayed the following defensive setup: maldini-baresi-scirea-bergomi. that's pretty much the equivalent of an offensive setup formed by pelè, maradona, messi and cruyff.

oh and btw, he's also a very nice and classy guy.... and quite simply THE best football matches commentator i've ever heard (and i've heard pretty much every english, french, spanish and italian football commentator out there). not a game goes by without me learning something new about the game, whenever he's commenting it...
 
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