Champions League 2012/13

The Barca we saw in these last two games was not the Barca that became the best team in the world. And it's not only because Messi is not in his best shape. The whole team is just a shadow of what it was just two years back.

I don't really know what the problem is with Barca: Maybe they have passed their glory time and rested on their laurels a bit too long instead of taking measures to improve, to develop. Maybe the leaving of Guardiola complicated things, maybe the new coach is not up to the task or maybe the team doesn't like his coaching and then discontentment led to the fall of Barca.

Or maybe the team's age is a problem with keyplayers maybe beyond their time or maybe the many injured players disrupted the team?

Regardless what it was but Barca didn't lose to Bayern, because Bayern was exceptionally good. Bayern did their job, they were good, but nothing special, they merely faced and defeated a Barca in shambles.

Real Madrid did a much finer job the day before, they fought well and played well, nearly at the height of their game, leaving down a lot of opportunities before scoring 2, and nearly making the wonder happen to come back after a 1:4 in the first leg. Imho Dortmund defeated the much stronger team ( compared to Barca in its current state), so I hope that Dortmund will win the final against Bayern.
 
jihado86 said:
take it easy pipa :D
why so serious?
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i take it pretty easy mate, i just don´t think that Barca are just Messi..they started dominating in Spain and Europe before Messi even played in first team.. + it´s very simplistic to say they are one man team only.. + Messi isn´t retiring :) they might as well continue winning next season again..or not. just saying they only pass the ball to make Messi fresh to score is strainge realy.

nevermind, football is a game where the goals matter in the end, not the game style...and Bayern scored more.
 
matherto said:
Methinks Messi needs to forget being a striker and go back to being an inside forward on the right and they need to get a proper striker in of the ilk of Eto'o.

That'll give them flexibility again because defenders won't know who to mark and there'll be more than one decent goalscorer.

They've never been as frightening as they were in 08/09 with Messi, Eto'o and Henry all providing the goals.
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That is what i am thinking too.
Without Eto'o Barcelona was never the same team...
 
henrys hand said:
Regardless what it was but Barca didn't lose to Bayern, because Bayern was exceptionally good. Bayern did their job, they were good, but nothing special, they merely faced and defeated a Barca in shambles.
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Do you really believe in what you have written?!?!
Ok, Barca was not in best shape, but yes, the lost to Bayern, because Bayern was much better in EVERYTHING !!!

Even with Messi in normal shape Bayern would have gone into finals. The outplayed them and their tikki takka style. That was a perfect strategy by Heynckes and excellent performances by the team. You don't win in total 7:0 even if Barca is in bad shape - you have to be very good to do so and Bayern did it, because right now they are clearly the strngest team in Europe. If they will stay focused, they can dominate European Club Soccer like Barca did in the last 6 years.

Though I don't like both teams in the final, I have to say the two best teams of this years CL are playing in Wembley. And I hope Bayern will win, not just simply because they are the stongest team, but for the money: Schalke will benefit due to transfer contract with Manuel Neuer. So I hope the will win the triple and pay some extra money to Schalke 04.... :D
 
Awesome display from Bayern, well done to them.

Also likewise Dortmund.

I'm with Gerd & Co, terrible mistake selling Eto'o, but as said someone of that type is what is required, although maybe even a Llorente could be a good move. They have so many chances for a Plan B into the box and he could be a valuable asset.


FD
 
Bayern were great.
Don't think Bayern won because Barcelona were a shambles. Barcelona were a shambles because Bayern were great.
I tend to like Dortmund more, but i'm afraid Dortmund will be no match for this Bayern team. This team comes close to the fantastic Ajax of Johan Cruijff (the player). It's a machine.
 
I would say Bayern are favourites and 7/10 times you would expect them to win but Dortmund have a reasonable chance. In the Bundesliga match this season in Munich it was 1:1 (the return in Dortmund is this weekend) and in the Cup in Munich it was 1:0 to Bayern (but I think Dortmund were missing Hummels here).

Anyway can you name the following from the squads the last time both clubs won it (Dortmund's 1997 CL squad and Bayern's 2001 squad)?

1)2 British players (1 from each winning squad)
2)2 Swiss players (1 from each winning squad)
3)2 Brazilian players (1 from each winning squad)
4)2 Scandinavian players (1 from each winning squad)
5)2 Ghanian players (1 from each winning squad)
 
Tito is a disaster!Lacks to read properly matches ..Pep was always surprises us with his plans

I think primarily responsible is managment stingy!!The team is suffering and there Mamal reservations to bring new players to the team
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
1)2 British players (1 from each winning squad) Hargreaves / Lambert
2)2 Swiss players (1 from each winning squad) Sforza / Chapuisat
3)2 Brazilian players (1 from each winning squad) Elber or Paulo Sergio / Julio Cesar
4)2 Scandinavian players (1 from each winning squad) Andersson / Pedersen (played barely!!)
5)2 Ghanian players (1 from each winning squad) Kuffour / Tanko
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:D
 
Exactly! Before Villa joined Brcelona he was one of the best striker in the world (if not the best) they totally wrecked him just like they did with Henry pushing him to the left, a guy with his natural born goal sense can't be forced to play like this, it's a shame (still talking about Villa here).
 
We also have to remember that Barca's defense was never their strong side. It wasn't exposed as often because they denied the opponents to attack properly, and some teams didn't even try to attack properly. There are only small adjustments needed for this Barca team to bounce back, and if they add a target striker up front to put into matches where they can't break open defenses with their fanatical passing, they'll become even harder to beat. If they add a quality defender or two as well, they'll actually become better than ever, with or without Tito.

We can find plenty of examples of Barca passing games to death without getting any goals even during their "prime" though, and that is the part I've criticised all along. They tried Zlatan to fix that weakness, but it didn't work out (somehow...) and they never bought a replacement. Barca is a team of mostly midgets and that should be fixed asap.
 
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I agree about Villa. But i've already said this in another discussion: Eto'o, Zlatan and Villa all were "sacrificed" for Messi...i'm not sure if that has turned out to be good thing in the end.

Messi is the best player i've ever seen (the only one better than Pele, and he is much better than Maradonna, trust me i've seen them play all 3), but somehow he is (unintentionally) cannibalising Barcelona. Can you imagine yesterday's team with Eto'o or Zlatan ??? (Bear in mind that Villa comes back from a serious injury).
 
gerd said:
I agree about Villa. But i've already said this in another discussion: Eto'o, Zlatan and Villa all were "sacrificed" for Messi...i'm not sure if that has turned out to be good thing in the end.

Messi is the best player i've ever seen (the only one better than Pele, and he is much better than Maradonna, trust me i've seen them play all 3), but somehow he is (unintentionally) cannibalising Barcelona. Can you imagine yesterday's team with Eto'o or Zlatan ??? (Bear in mind that Villa comes back from a serious injury).
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That's crazy gerd. It's like texting is removing the connection to human correlation . A good in one sense and bad in another. Messi is getting better while every other is suffering from it ( a system that benefit one!) like a dictator lol.
 
Sadly some people have forgotten about El Fenómeno. He's much better than Messi imo.
 
Sadly we'll never, ever know what Fat Ronaldo would've become without the knee injuries, weight issues and the chaos of the '98 final.

Surely would've been the greatest ever though had he been fine.
 
Lami said:
Sadly some people have forgotten about El Fenómeno. He's much better than Messi imo.
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Different type of Player and different times, so hard to compare. Ronaldo was great - one of the best strikers of all times and now Messi is great, but most of the times only in Barca team and not in NT...
 
we7god said:
Different type of Player and different times, so hard to compare. Ronaldo was great - one of the best strikers of all times and now Messi is great, but most of the times only in Barca team and not in NT...
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Not in NT? He is leading Argentina to WC-2014, 12 goals last calendar year, tons of assists. Cliche Messi is poor in NT dosent work anymore. I'm not saying he is going to win WC, but he is A LOT better in NT than he was couple of years ago. You don't even have to trust me, just check statistics.
 
gerd said:
Messi is the best player i've ever seen (the only one better than Pele, and he is much better than Maradonna, trust me i've seen them play all 3)
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Jesus, are you serious? Should we just trust you on this, because you've seen them all?
The world can't agree who's best between C.Ronaldo and Messi, and now you've gone and figured it all out for us?

Well done!


PS. Talk about publishing personal preference as facts... and you can't even spell Maradona correctly.


Lami said:
Sadly some people have forgotten about El Fenómeno. He's much better than Messi imo.
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He IS not, maybe he were though. Still, I find this sort of statements a clear sign of complete and utter failure to understand individual skills in football.

C.Ronaldo in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than Messi or Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Messi in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than C.Ronaldo or Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Ronaldo in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than Messi or C.Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Isn't that painfully obvious?

Since you're at it, what about Batistuta then? He played a few more games than Ronaldo and scored a few less, but he also played in a lot weaker sides, don't you consider this at all?

Lastly, who was the better footballer of Franco Baresi and Francesco Totti?
Don't you see how utterly stupid comparison between players really is?
The only way we could ever get a proper comparison going is if two players were rotating the same position in the same system. There are many cases where a technically less gifted player work better than a ball virtuoso in football, who's to say that the ball virtuoso is the better footballer? Football is a team game last time I checked... For the record, Maradona was arguably the best team player of the ones mentioned here.

matherto said:
Surely would've been the greatest ever though had he been fine.
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Like you said, we will never know so why do you pretend to know in the very same post?
First you state the obvious, and then you state the impossible... great.
 
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Sabatasso said:
He IS not, maybe he were though. Still, I find this sort of statements a clear sign of complete and utter failure to understand individual skills in football.

C.Ronaldo in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than Messi or Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Messi in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than C.Ronaldo or Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Ronaldo in a team that plays him in a position that suits his skills and instructions that plays to his strengths would be better than Messi or C.Ronaldo with the same instructions.

Isn't that painfully obvious?

Since you're at it, what about Batistuta then? He played a few more games than Ronaldo and scored a few less, but he also played in a lot weaker sides, don't you consider this at all?
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Except - Messi individual skills are not matched by any of those players. Pele is different era, Maradona was very similar to Messi. You can't compare a gifted athlete C.Ronaldo with god blessed natural talant that Leo is.

And now he is proving that in Argentina National team. Speaking of Batistusta, Messi now equalled his record for national team goals in one season.

Comparing Ronaldo or C.Ronaldo with Messi = upgraded Maradona ver.2? Pff..
 
Maradona was a better team player than Messi is now, Messi is a better goalscorer than Maradona was.

Similar, possibly but they play different roles and have different strengths.

If you combined Pirlo's overview, Messi's technique and Teve's physique you get Maradona in his prime. Maybe innacurate but close enough.

PS. Batigol got 78/65 NT goal ratio, Messi got 79/32 so I guess you should check your facts sheet. For comparison, Maradona got 91/34 that indicates, but is not conclusive with, that Messi has a more goalscoring role than the playmaker Maradona had.
 
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Sabatasso said:
PS. Batigol got 78/65 NT goal ratio, Messi got 79/32 so I guess you should check your facts sheet. For comparison, Maradona got 91/34 that indicates, but is not conclusive with, that Messi has a more goalscoring role than the playmaker Maradona had.
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Messi got around 25 assists, maybe you should check your facts sheet too? 25 assists for national team, that isnt playmaker you say?

How sad it is, that first people whine that Messi is no1 without Xavi and Iniesta, then people whine that he is useless in National Team. Haters gonna hate! But Messi is been better and better since he scored his first goal for Barcelona. If last year he was healthy and could score over 90 goals, this season he hits us with supreme consistency, scoring over 20 matches in a row in La Liga. Can you name any player who can be so consistent? Ronaldo makes a lovely hockey level stats 51 games - 51 goals, thats 1.00 ratio. Messi puts even THAT to shame with around 1.69 goals/game.. thats not football, thats hockey. He is going to become the Gretzky of football.

Oh and one more thing: he is 25 years old, after 30 he will become even more profilic as a playmaker, now he scores way to many goals to give enough assists + partners arent converting enough(Sanchez terrible misses).

Ronaldo was playing in Barcelona, he scored lots of goals, made a consecutive scoring back to back games, but Messi took all those records and threw them into trash bin. He is at 25 only 10-15 goals short of ALL TIME RAUL record in CL (144 matces against Messi 79), Ronaldo is barely over 50 goals and 28 years old.

I just can't understand people that even try to compare him to Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldo and others. Its Pele, Maradona, Zidane and Messi. Pele being the first king, then we had Maradona, Zidane and now we have Messi.
 
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I'm comparing players based on their individual skills and pure talent. I think Ronaldo is better there. C Ronaldo is good but not on the same level. He can score tons of goals but somewhat lost his ability to skim through players easily.

Ronaldo's legs had to be broken for him to be stopped. He was incredibly threatening. Imo he's much less obvious than Messi.

What I'd give to see Ronaldo play again.
 
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