Champions League 2009-10

Aboutreika18 said:
They obviously don't have the resources or quality to play like Barca and if they tried, they'd get slaughtered like Wigan last week.

Don't see how it would be bad for football either. Would just be one of those freak occurences in football.

Besides, it would give me a right laugh. :P
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If i were you, i would conclude that you have an irrational hate for Barcelona and Inter...:COOL:

But as a matter of fact you are both right: as a football fan i want to see Barcelona in the rest of the CL...(and also Inter, if only for Eto'o).

On the other hand it would be good for football if Kazan and/or Kiev would qualify...it's very good that unusual teams qualify for the later stages of the CL.

Arsenal and Barcelona are playing the best football in Europe right at the moment, but i would be very glad if teams like Porto, Lyon, Sevilla, Fiorentina or Wolfsburg could win the CL (and why not Unirea ???). That's also the reason i'm glad that Liverpool didn't make it...fresh blood is good. And let's be honest Liverpool is playing bad football at the moment.

As a Belgian and a bit of a Standard fan, i watched their game against Arsenal...what a big difference between (a weakened) Standard and Arsenal who played one of their weakest matches....after 10 minutes it should have been 4-0.

Although there is not the slightest doubt that Arsenal won deservedly, Standard was denied a crystal clear penalty...i'm the first to say that being ref is the most difficult (and underrated) job on a football pitch, but why oh why are good teams always advantaged in difficult decisions. Why not a UEFA "rule" to give the advantage to weaker teams when there is doubt...this is good for a "fair" competition. I know what i propose is not exactly "fair", but i would prefer this instead of seeing always the same teams in the last 4 of a CL.
 
drekkard said:
That's almost impossible right now and frankly, it wouldn't be good for football. Barcelona had all the bad luck in the world against the russians, but if you love football, you want barcelona to go on. Inter, there's another story, after the first 5 matches, I have seen no difference at all between them and the slavian teams, they just put men in the own area and pray to score in a single counter. Crap.
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calling the 3rd\4th best team in europe "crap" is really over the top, frankly. inter sure don't play "fancy" football, and there are a lot of teams that play more "entertaining" football, not only in europe (arsenal, werder, bordeaux) but in serie a aswell (genoa, samp, udinese, hell even parma and cagliari!).... but that doesn't mean they're better teams than inter.... infact none of theese teams i mentioned (english, germans, french and italians) is better than inter right now.

besides yesterday barca HAD to win, while inter could have been ok even with a loss.... it's already hard enough to play against the best team in europe.... at the nou camp.... if u add also this huge motivational gap, well.

on the other side, i gotta say this barcelona is just unbelievable. when they're in the right mood (like yesterday) they're just the state of the art of football...i can't even imagine anything closer to perfection...and it's no surprise if they can make any opponent look so bad (even a top side like inter).... they're just on a different category than any other team out there right now.... it must be quite an experience to watch them live from a stadium seat, without been forced to see what the cameras want u to see.... having a vision of the all pitch, of all the movements of the players without the ball... damn! :... it really makes u wanna book a flight to barcelona. :))
 
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Sorry if I was too harsh on Inter, but even if they are definitely a strong side in Europe, the matches they have played in this edition of the Champions League have been actually crap.

In the first match, at San Siro, without motivational gaps everybody fit, Inter focused to defend at all costs. I remember 10 men in the own are for long periods of time. Of course it's barcelona style of play that forces opponents to play like that and makes Inter seem as good/bad as any other team out there. But: they didn't want victory, they resigned to attack, they didn't even try to stop barcelona's play.

Look at Rubin Kazan. They had all the luck in the world against Barcelona in both matches, but at least they were determined to make something and fought for it with all its strengths.

Now look at the rest of matches Inter has played in the cup and you'll see they haven't shows anything. Rubin and Dinamo haven't been inferior in any category.

I had hopes that Inter would have grown a little more this year, but it seems to me that Inter is a team designed solely to win the Serie A and doesn't have any kind of european ambition. It's odd with all the money they have invested in the team.

About watching this team live... of course it's a joy. I always do and I can tell you it's impressive to see how the team controls the ball wth the deffensive line living almost all game in the halfline. When I said Inter seemed crap, it was with a reason, it's one of the weakest teams I've seen this year considering all things I saw (and of course, compared to the expectations I had).
 
i think u're confusing the strenght of a team (its overall quality) with the quality of the football they play.

inter might well be one of the most appalling teams u watched at the camp nou this season..... infact it's also one of the most appalling teams i've watched at palermo's stadium this season..... but it's definitely not one of the "weakests".
the overall quality of a team can't be measured by the quality of the football played alone....
i can count at least 8 serie a teams which play much better football than inter.... but that doesn't make those 8 teams better "overall" teams than inter (infact all those teams will all end the season way below inter in the league table)

if it was all about quality and offensive stilish gameplan, then the best teams in europe right now would be (and by a huge margin) barca, arsenal and genoa.... now i'm fine with barca..... but arsenal and genoa are far from being on top of europe honestly. :P

even though they're usually the less entertaining side on the pitch, inter usually turns out to be also the winning side on the pitch, coz their very clinical and their physical impact usually makes up for their lack of plot. sure it's not the most fascinating way to victory.... but it works as much as fancy quality playing style.

as for the first leg at san siro, i gotta say i strongly disagree with u. inter played very well that evening, showing some impressive confidence, for such a tough challenge. they were in control of the match for the first half...... then barca went on "God-mode" in the second half and inter didn't see the ball anymore.
but mind u, we're still talking about a "new" team; motta, milito, lucio, eto'o, snejider....5 new players... and they're not just 5 new signings... they're all starting formation players... and that match was played at the very beginning of the season, in september.
u just can't expect inter to face barcelona (a team which won the last champions league, and which has been playing with basically the same starting 11 formation for years) so early in the season, with half a new team (5 of 11) and play some logic football.
of course, after 3 months, u might expect to see some progressions..... but with mourinho in charge, that would be optimistic.
anyhow u're certainly right when u say this team is designed to win leagues and not cups... and i agree with u, it's a shame, as they won plenty of leagues already, while they haven't win in europe for decades now.

bottom line inter is a great team, wich plays some horrible football (although they're not usually as bad as yesterday of course), but which still delivers.... and any sort of comparison between barca and any other team is just unfair at the moment.
my girl is beautiful beyond any imagination, but if u would put her in the same room with, say, monica bellucci and beyonce, i would hardly notice her :))

oh and no need to apologise, pal. u weren't harsh, u just expressed your opinion, aswell as i did :)) ..... besides i'm not even an inter fan :P
btw congrats for the win. it was a stunning performance.
this barca really is "el equipo illegal" as an italian commentator said last season... they're just too good.
 
Barca are an incredible team but not invincible.

But their main danger is themselves, if they become overconfident and complacent, they'll start missing out on trophies, a bit like what happened to us after our Treble in 1999.
 
yeah obviously there's no such thing as an invincible team, as any squad can have his good and bad days.... but when they're in the right mood, they're just staggering :))
 
I also have the experience that some later CL winners or teams who reach te last four aren't always that good or convincing in the group stage...at this stage there is a margin for errors.

What matters is to be excellent when it really matters...Barcelona and Arsenal are perhaps the only teams that try to be outstanding in every single match they play and that might be their biggest (and for Barcelona their only) weakness.
 
Zio, after reading my posts again, I think you're right about confusing terms (strength/quality) and I agree with what you say.

Otherwise, about the first match in september, I still think Inter should have offered more, at least mentally they should have gone for the victory at its own stadium. But I may be wrong and biased here.

Another thing I can't stand is Inter playing without any italian player in the squad, while in Barcelona there were 7 homegrown players. I'm sure a "more italian" inter would have represented better the club.
 
drekkard said:
Otherwise, about the first match in september, I still think Inter should have offered more, at least mentally they should have gone for the victory at its own stadium. But I may be wrong and biased here.
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you're not wrong neither biased. the point is, it doesn't matter how much u "wanna" win, u can't go for it if u can't get the ball.
and when barcelona players get in that confident\aware\chilled out mood, u just can't get the ball from them, as they won't even show it to u. the only thing u can possibly do is protect the box (desperately) and hope in a lucky break on the counter (wich is what chelsea did last year)... it's not about being cynical or about having a loosing mentality.... and it's got nothing to do with that "anti-football" bullshits... it's just about being realistic and be aware of the gap between u and your opponent. it's about trying to get a good result in the only way possible.

allow me a bit of a digression here. as i said, about 10 teams in serie a play more quality football than inter... and about 8 of theese 10 teams have enough great players to actually beat them (and not only display a better football)...
many times during the season u get to see inter being completely outplayed by theese teams... sometimes theese weaker (but more quality) opponents even manage to exploit their better display by scoring.....
but then, after 45, 60, 70 minutes of great football, those teams (it could be genoa or samp or udinese or napoli or fiorentina....) start to get worried. it might be "fear of winning", it might be that they don't feel confident enough to actually realise they're deserving to win, it might be the fact that they're just realising that they're about to beat a team where the likes of samuel, eto'o, maicon, cambiasso, milito, sneijder play...... fact is, their legs start shaking, they loose confidence

inter players obviously feel their opponents change of mood and it's then they realise they're loosing a match they're not supposed to loose (roster-wise) "hey we're inter! we can't just let this midclass team outplay us!".
so this change of attitude by the midclass team added to the pride\confidence boost of inter players usually turns out to be a key factor. and that's how inter wins many matches in serie a, despite being outclassed by their opponents for most of the game.

but playing against barcelona, this won't happen, of course.... actually it's pretty much the opposite. after 30 minutes of ballet all along the pitch, trying to chase the ball u get frustrated, as u realise your opponent is just better than u are.
this "awareness of the opponent's supremacy" is a confidence killer (exactly the opposite of what happens in the league matches) and it brings u to take the only reasonable decision:
"if we keep playing their game, they're gonna tear us apart, so let's just try to sit back and reduce the damages, while we hope for a lucky break on the counter".

and it's not like u just gave up to playing football consciously. football is a dynamic, "fluid" game, and sometimes u don't get to choose the plot of the game... u're just forced to assume a position on the pitch by the flow of the game.... and unless u have balls and a hell of a regista in the middle of the pitch (and inter has not a regista), u can't even force the flow of the game to a change. u are cornered and since u can't change the tempo of the game, u just get on the defensive... it's a natural instinctive reaction.

of course u don't experience this kind of surrender attitude when 2 top teams play each others (say inter and chelsea or inter and arsenal or man utd or real madrid....) but the truth is barcelona is beyond "top team" level right now.

of course that doesn't mean they can't be beated.... but it means that it takes them to have a bad day (and u to play a great game) in order to beat them....
.... and yesterday barca didn't have a bad day.... definitely :P
Another thing I can't stand is Inter playing without any italian player in the squad, while in Barcelona there were 7 homegrown players.
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yeah actually that's quite a funny matchup in this concern.... inter isn't really famous for his academy, and always had a minority of italian players (wich is not really a nice thing, i agree), while barca on the other side has one of the best and, traditionally most historic "canteras" in the world.
what can i say.... i guess they called it "internazionale" (international) for a reason afterall. :D
 
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lo zio said:
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yeah actually that's quite a funny matchup in this concern.... inter isn't really famous for his academy, and always had a minority of italian players (wich is not really a nice thing, i agree), while barca on the other side has one of the best and, traditionally most historic "canteras" in the world.
what can i say.... i guess they called it "internazionale" (international) for a reason afterall. :D
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Brilliant post there, zio, I really think you summarized it well. About the "italian" players, it doesn't need to be from the "cantera", they could sign great italian players and they don't. I think that's one of the problems they have, they need young people that feels and understands the club, even if they are named "Internazionale"!

And about the "regista" position, how good would Inter be if they had signed Diego. Great for la vecchia signora!
 
drekkard said:
Brilliant post there, zio, I really think you summarized it well.
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well, "summarized" isn't exactly the word i'd use (given the usual lenght of my posts :P ), but thanks pal.

i agree about that anyhow. if not cantera's products (or primavera, as we say in italy) they could at least buy some italian talents from other academies.... i mean, it's not like we lack of great academies and highly talented players... moratti keeps saying that he wanna increase the number of italian players every year.... but his "intentions" aren't really supported by any real attempt to "buy italian"... gotta say though, santon and balotelli might be a sign of a change of their policies.

as for diego, well he's more of a trequartista, and with sneijder and balotelli, inter has already got lots of creativity upfront. where they really lack of quality is deep in their own midfield. hence they need a "proper" regista... the best ones (pirlo and xavi) are obviously out of question, but there are plenty of good, very good and great registas in italy, playing for midclass teams and who would be damn helpful for inter....
the big question is... once u provide inter with a regista, would mourinho know "what to do with it"? :P
 
It's unforgivable. He needs to be punished for this miss.
I can't believe we didn't win this match. 1 points against Milan when we deserve a lot more.
 
Marseille ran rings around us. Great display from them. Definitely deserved a win. 2 post hits is a shame not to score.

Milan need to stop feeling overconfident. The midfield especially Seedorf and Pirlo are super slow. For Seedorf to hold the ball run around and pass it he needs 10 seconds(Gourcuff comes to mind:RANT:, can't get over him). Leonardo needs to start using Flamini more often. I think he is better defensively than Pirlo who can't defend and faster but I think Leo thinks a 1000 times before changing a player.

And why did Heinze stick his head to the ball in the final minute is funny.
 
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tuta said:
It's unforgivable. He needs to be punished for this miss.
I can't believe we didn't win this match. 1 points against Milan when we deserve a lot more.
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Both games we should have won. Niang was awesome tonight as per usual, dunno why the ref never blew for a foul on Ben Arfa. His shirt was pulled right in front of the ref.

Maybe Zurich can cause an upset on the last game.
 
Yeah watched Milan vs. OM game today, Marseille will feel a little hard done.. they should've won this and taken a real step towards qualification. Not it's not impossible but gonna be very difficult for the 3rd French team to make it through.

Brandao had one of his worst games! He did very little all match and I was calling for him to be subbed off and then that amazing chance comes to him which he blew! Yet, Deschamps at no point seemed likely to take him out. I thought if Kone had come on for him, yes they would be missing his strength and height (which hadn't done much for them anyway) but with the speed and agility of Niang and Kone as well as subs like Ben Arfa and possibly Valbuena, they could've caused Milan defense even more trouble.

They dominated midfield in 2nd half though as Pirlo, Ambrosini and Seedorf are all quite slow and Pirlo and Ambrosini were very tired near the end and I'd say had less in the tank than OM players who seemed fitter (more stamina).

Because of Pato, Taiwo barely got forward today which was a good weapon for Milan because they held him back and of course Pato is always dangerous.


p.s. If Hatem had gone down, I'm pretty sure the ref would've blown for a Penalty. But he didn't and stayed on his feet and even though a CLEAR foul and holding of the shirt by Abate, the ref ignores it! Then people wonder why players go down when they don't have to...
 
[sorry i'll prolly already be off-topic, but.... ]

zio, i understand what inter goes through against a team like barcelona and i agree with you - they should reconsider and adopt the best strategy they can use against a team that hides the ball. i also understand that when that team's relaxed... they're untouchable [look at how shaky they played against manchester before they scored and how great after]...

... but in the end it still kinda means you're not fully deserving of the trophy. maybe this is the barcelona-fan inside me talking, we're used to having like 66-70% possession and we start thinking it's the only way to PLAY football. - i guess it's a matter of perspective. us barcelona fans deal in absolute when it comes to football. you should always want to play, not win.

then again i consider barelona - as great as they are - a really fragile team. you mentioned this - it works great on a good day. the decisive matches last year were "solved" by half-time... but this means they have difficulty getting back in the game [i also think manchester wouldhave won should they have scored first]. it's a latin team so morale counts. look at spain - they're great now, but not great on comebacks. they usually take the lead and never leave it.
sad part is - barcelona is pretty fragile and in a knockout competition one bad day could mean a 1-0, 2-0 loss which could be fatal.
 
Deschamps is clueless...Marseille had a good, solid team last year and never understood all those transfers of "have been" (this is exagerated, but people like Morientes and Heinze have seen it all...they lack grinta).
 
gerd said:
Deschamps is clueless...Marseille had a good, solid team last year and never understood all those transfers of "have been" (this is exagerated, but people like Morientes and Heinze have seen it all...they lack grinta).
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Hienze has scored some important goals but his defending sometimes is so poor. He was at fault for the Milan goal!

Morientes signing made no sense to me. He was a great player but he is way past it now.
 
PLF said:
They dominated midfield in 2nd half though as Pirlo, Ambrosini and Seedorf are all quite slow and Pirlo and Ambrosini were very tired near the end and I'd say had less in the tank than OM players who seemed fitter (more stamina).
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thing is right now milan has absolutely no midfield at all. this strategy leonardo is displaying lately requires 6 men defending and 4 men put upfront (despite the evolution of the plays)... there's no build up, no construction no fluidity.... it's really weird, it goes pretty much against the evolution of football in the last 10 years and it forces ambrosini and pirlo to a very humiliating work (i mean humiliating for their skills).... yet, so far it worked (although reading your post, i assume yesterday it didn't).
anyhow given the absolute lack of movement without the ball milan players showed in the past few years, i can definitely see why leo went for such a strange tactical display.

great performance by bordeaux yesterday. what a nice team this is :))

m7m_teddy said:
... but in the end it still kinda means you're not fully deserving of the trophy. maybe this is the barcelona-fan inside me talking, we're used to having like 66-70% possession and we start thinking it's the only way to PLAY football. - i guess it's a matter of perspective.
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66-70%?!? :SHOCK: that seems high... even for barca standards..... a 60 percent possession is already a sign of a complete domination at midfield, i can't even imagine a 66% percent.
anyhow possession is arguably the most deceptive game stat, as it might well mean absolutely nothing if u consider it alone. it's never about how much u hold the ball, it's about what u do with the ball once u have possession.
take rjikaard's last year barca... they based their game on possession (as barca and spanish teams always do).... yet that team looked helpless even when in possession. there was no off the ball movement, no sense of verticality, not a single change of rhythm in 90 minutes.... it was flat, and predicable and boring.
this team now is so different, so much more dangerous upfront.... yet i'm absolutely sure their average possession percentage today is absolutely the same of 3 years ago.

so long story short, no, possession is not the only way to play.... actually possession isn't even A way to play. coz possession just means u have the control of the ball.... it's what u do with the ball that defines the way u play :))
us barcelona fans deal in absolute when it comes to football. you should always want to play, not win
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yeah i know that :DD but it's not that bad... afterall barca fans (and spanish fans in general) have quite a romantic conception of the game :))
 
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Just a question mates! Can teams of the same country face in the 16 stage? Can't remember it happening before.
 
kobashi said:
Hienze has scored some important goals but his defending sometimes is so poor. He was at fault for the Milan goal!
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Well actually, Niang who was excellent throughout the game was the one really at fault for that goal because Marseille were on a breakaway and looking good and fluid and suddenly he loses the ball with his bad first touch, Milan get the ball and release Borreillo who's now suddenly in a 1-on-1 situation with the old clumsy Gaby Heinze.

Then from that situation yah.. you could say it was Heinze's fault as Marco went past him FAR TOO EASILY!!! But that goal all started with Niang's mistake which he more than made up for throughout the rest of the game and by basically creating the goal as well and even more goals if Brandao and co hadn't been wasteful.

@Gerd, he's not clueless. He has his own philosophies. I don't really agree with much of what he did taking over Gerets' great team either, but the man has his own ideas and they're not exactly bad ideas.
 
I agree PLF, i was too harsh for Deschamps, but Gerets was building something beautifull and honestly i can't say that what Deschamps has made is a better team, i seriously doubt it.
 
Like always, Marseille finish 3rd.
This year we had less fear but too many mistakes and early goals conceeded.

We were so close ! :CRY:
 
Marseille messed up when they didn't beat AC Milan in last match where they were the superior team. They really should've taken 3 points there. Tonight was always gonna be difficult. :/

Gerd, yeah I'd LOVED it if Gerets had stayed. He was building something very special like you siad. But unfortunately for all of us, he moved on :( , so OM had to make a change, and Didier was one of if not the best choice I think. Not as good as having Gerets continue but probably next best thing.

Yup congrats to Bayern while big thumbs down to Wolfsburg! Though I didn't see the match to judge properly, the result is really disappointing!
Nice to see Buffon make some mistakes. :D

And my god, Olic was on f'n steroids! :SHOCK: I was relieved to see him signal bench to be subbed off! Cuz he RAN his ASS off for 80 mins!! Work-rate, stamina, determination, energy UNBElievable! Was great that he capped what was for me MoM performance (along with van Bommel) with a goal as well. Bayern owe Ivica a huge thanks for tonight's win. He was a KEY part of it and did far more than Super Mario.
 
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