Best free kicker ever ?

steevio_uk said:
I thought by the sheer mentioning of Tony Gale in the same sentence as Diego Maradona, you'd see I was joking :lol:;)
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of course i saw it, mate. :D
anyway, on second thought, it wouldn't be so weird. i mean football is passion, and passion might bring us to rate a Tony Gale or an Amauri more than a Maradona. :) (sorry for off topic :mrgreen:)

Bruv... please... I know who Zico is. I'm OF COURSE referring specifically to his free kick ability as my tender years betrayed me ever seeing the man play.
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sorry then mate, i just misunderstood u :mrgreen:
anyway, yes, he was (also) a great free kicks taker ;):)
 
You guys are concerntrating on scoring direct from free kicks, but as we all know free kicks are more than just that. You have to consider crossing ability from free kicks and resultant goals as well.

For me when the latter is taken into account I don't look beyond David Beckham as he is the best that I have ever seen.

That doesn't mean he has to be the best, just the best I have ever seen. I don't think there is any point in people arguing or postulating a list as simply nobody can have watched enough of all the leagues with the same level of intensity thorughout all the years to have a good enough and true enough opinion.

So all you have is your own opinion from a limited viewpoint and that is it and from my own limited viewpoint when crossing for others is taken into account as well as scoring direct David Beckham has been the best for me- in my lifetime of watching football.

P.S

One question mark I would have against Juninho though is the fact that he has been hitting all those free kicks in, in the French League and I would question the ability of the keepers. I do not believe he would score anywhere near the same number in Italy, England, Germany or Spain, of course that is debatable on just my honest opinion.
 
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But he scored a lot of direct free-kicks in the Champions League as well, against the best keepers, that is. I don't think Juninho really has to prove anything anymore.
 
vanzandt said:
You guys are concerntrating on scoring direct from free kicks, but as we all know free kicks are more than just that. You have to consider crossing ability from free kicks and resultant goals as well.
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Well in that case and including corners, it's Mehmet Scholl for me no question.

(I am pretty sure this thread is just based on direct free kicks though mate ;) )
 
Rentalkid said:
But he scored a lot of direct free-kicks in the Champions League as well, against the best keepers, that is. I don't think Juninho really has to prove anything anymore.
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The majority of his free kicks ARE from the French league. If you disagree with my point because you think the keepers in the french league are good enough/as good as those in the major leagues then fine. But my point stands because IMHO they are not.

steevio_uk said:
Well in that case and including corners, it's Mehmet Scholl for me no question.

(I am pretty sure this thread is just based on direct free kicks though mate ;) )
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The title is the best free kick taker ever. Crossing and the skill of creating goals from free kicks is presumably part of the equation/assesment.

I mean part of the skill in taking a free kick is in setting up goals is it not?

The best I have seen is Beckham because apart from scoring so many free kicks and at a high level including world cup qualifiers and matches, he also has a high ratio of creating goals from whipping in free kicks for others to score.

No one has to agree with my feelings, but I have the right to hold the views that I do.
 
vanzandt, why do you appear so defensive? I agree with pretty much most things that you say on things.

I am not having a poke now and no one else is, but you seem keen to often stress how your views are your views and that others shouldn't criticise them.

I agree with you completely 100% regarding the art of free-kicks.
I was merely pointing out that it was very, very likely that the thread starter had direct free kicks in mind when starting the thread.

For what it's worth, I agree that Beckham is definitely well up there if not at the very top, it's just that I have never seen anyone deliver a dead-ball quite like Mehmet Scholl before.
 
yes, i was thinking in direct free kicks, the result of the crossed ones, depends much more of the hability of the strikers.

If you have Koller for example, you dont have to be thaaat great. :)
 
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steevio_uk said:
vanzandt, why do you appear so defensive? I agree with pretty much most things that you say on things.

I am not having a poke now and no one else is, but you seem keen to often stress how your views are your views and that others shouldn't criticise them.

I agree with you completely 100% regarding the art of free-kicks.
I was merely pointing out that it was very, very likely that the thread starter had direct free kicks in mind when starting the thread.

For what it's worth, I agree that Beckham is definitely well up there if not at the very top, it's just that I have never seen anyone deliver a dead-ball quite like Mehmet Scholl before.
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If I seem defensive it is because I have been hammered for just expressing simple subjective views on the site a number of times.

I wasn't trying to sound defensive, just trying to say that in such things, people do not have to agree with one another and that there is in fact no harm at all in that.

I have been saying as much a good bit because I constantly expect reactions from others to be intolerant.

But hey now even when I add that caveat I can get hammered for being defensive so go figure.

I can’t really win either way, it seems I will get stick no matter what I do around here....starting to run out of patience.

P.S

Did I say anything to you on such lines in the discussion over Tevez? I think not.
 
To me it's Koeman and Mihajlovic if we look at statistics. That men were just awesome. I watched Koeman in Camp Nou a lot of afternoons and he scored one of every two FK. No kidding. Juninho I think is almost as good as them.

I've seen Maradona, Schuster, Hagi, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and others shooting free kicks in barcelona stadium, and Koeman was BY FAR the more effective, he was far better tha maradona. Yes.

If we concentrate only in potent shoots, Roberto Carlos, Juninho, Hagi, Mihajlovic and Koeman are the best.

But, if we take into account style and cleverness, it should be between Ronaldinho, Platini, Beckham and Maradona to me. Why do I put Ronaldinho? Well, because of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USWMO4VTW2U

I was at the stadium and said to my mate: "How the hell is he going to score with such tall men in the wall? There is no space, they are so huge!". And Ronaldinho even cheated the slowmo camera. That's art.
 
So all you have is your own opinion from a limited viewpoint
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of course, mate. besides that's why i wrote that's impossible to establish a faithful and abslolutely sharable ranking.
and probably that's also the reason why theese kind of threads are so "appealing", as Gerd smartly remarked :D


One question mark I would have against Juninho though is the fact that he has been hitting all those free kicks in, in the French League and I would question the ability of the keepers. I do not believe he would score anywhere near the same number in Italy, England, Germany or Spain, of course that is debatable on just my honest opinion.
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here i have to disagree with u mate.
talking about direct free kicks, there's not so much a defense can do. u just have to take your place in the wall and hope to stop the ball with your body (and hope the ball doesn't hit your "critical points" :mrgreen:). having a Nesta or a "mr. whoever" in your wall.... it doesn't really matter.
it might be important to have a good keeper, one who knows how to place the wall (it's pretty much important for the gk to see the ball through the wall).
once i heard buffon saying that he'd like not to have a wall in front of him during free kicks. he said " but then, if if i wouldn't be able to get the ball, my teamates and my coach would kill me, so...:lol:

talking about "passing free kicks", the ability of your defense might become a factor, but i guess we're talking about "shooting free kicks".

anyway i don't think premiership and liga defenses are better than ligue un ones (this doesn't want to be an affront to premiership and liga, as i like premiership very much and la liga is my favourite league in europe ;)).

moreover u probaly would be surprised by discovering that the most vulnerable defense in europe (at least between european top clubs) talking about "passing free kicks" is milan's one.
in fact during free kicks situations, ancelotti always chooses a zone coverage (:shock:). Milan is the only team in europe who plays a zone coverage during free kicks, and i won't ever understand why such a great coach (ancelotti) does such a silly mistake. there's not enough space to use a zone coverage, the defenders loose their assigned opponents and they don't have the time to regain the correct position.
it's not a coincidence if goals scored on passing free kicks have been milan's biggest issue in the past 3 years.
 
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lo zio said:
here i have to disagree with u mate.
talking about direct free kicks, there's not so much a defense can do.
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My point in reference to Juninho and the French league is that the keepers are not as good in the French league. Purely on ability I do not think that the keepers are as good across the French league as the other major leagues. This will mean that scoring with a free kick would be easier, both direct and indirect. That is my feeling.
 
vanzandt said:
My point in reference to Juninho and the French league is that the keepers are not as good in the French league. Purely on ability I do not think that the keepers are as good across the French league as the other major leagues. This will mean that scoring with a free kick would be easier, both direct and indirect. That is my feeling.
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got it mate ;)
but i'm not so sure that the average quality level of ligue un goalkeepers is worse than the other leagues one. i mean we all have our abondanzieri, james, piplica or agliardi (:().
anyway that's just my opinion and i'm not even sure about it :)
 
lo zio said:
got it mate ;)
but i'm not so sure that the average quality level of ligue un goalkeepers is worse than the other leagues one. i mean we all have our abondanzieri, james, piplica or agliardi (:().
anyway that's just my opinion and i'm not even sure about it :)
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All leagues have good and bad keepers, but the average and the standard throughout a league is higher in certain leagues. The money, coverage and other such matters result in the best being drawn to certain leagues IMHO.

Thomas.

Very good....Juninho is a great free kick taker. The one against Bayern in particular was superb.

The one against Ajaccio was terrible keeping though IMHO.....but that is not the point as that is just one free kick and my prior point is one of an overall standard of keeping and I am not saying that Juninho is not a great free kick taker because he plainly is.
 
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OMG!!!!

I Cannot believe no one mentioned effenberg the best free-kicker bundes liga have seen. but in my life-time as a football fan (am 18 watching football since 1998) i have to say becksy and miha. juninho is awsome aswell, dont no one say pilro isnt one of the greatest, he may not score alot but his crosses are great. if pirlo isnt great why when he wants to shoot a free-kick everbody is alert and they are afraid.

PS:- seen vidoes of classic players so in that department i say; zico,maradona, stoitchkov(wrong spelling), Koeman, and platini.
 
theres no doubt in my mind NELINHO and ZICO were the best Fker of all time...one used finness (zico) the other was pure power and spin(nelinho).

others deserved to mention are:
Mihajlovic
Rogerio Ceni (GK, Sao Paulo)
Alex(Fener)
Beckham(aint good as the midia tell everybody, but its a hell of a fker!)
Juninho
Marcelinho Carioca
Rivelino
Eder
Platini
 
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vanzandt said:
All leagues have good and bad keepers, but the average and the standard throughout a league is higher in certain leagues. The money, coverage and other such matters result in the best being drawn to certain leagues IMHO.
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My point in reference to Juninho and the French league is that the keepers are not as good in the French league. Purely on ability I do not think that the keepers are as good across the French league as the other major leagues. This will mean that scoring with a free kick would be easier, both direct and indirect. That is my feeling.
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I don't really i agree with you on that, it's not like Beckham scored against world-class keepers week-in-week-out. Plus the level of quality keepers in the "major leagues" isn't that high in comparison to the french.

Also a great free-kicker can make any keeper look bad.
 
Sabac Red said:
I don't really i agree with you on that, it's not like Beckham scored against world-class keepers week-in-week-out.
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No problem with disagreeing mate, it would be dull if we all agreed with one another.

In statting your opinion you say it is not as though Beckham scored against world class keepers week-in-week-out.

I agree.

But that is not the point as I see it.

The point is that although Beckham did not have to score against world class keepers week-in-week-out, he did come up against a higher standard of keeper across every season in both the English and Spanish game. Beckham played against a higher standard of keeper overall. The best keepers were generally better, the average standard generally higher and the worst keepers generally not as bad.

That is my point.

You can disagree with that of course.

Sabac Red said:
Plus the level of quality keepers in the "major leagues" isn't that high in comparison to the french.
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It is my contention that the difference IS significant....so we agree to differ.

Sabac Red said:
Also a great free-kicker can make any keeper look bad.
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And by the same token a great goalscorer will score in any league. But they will tend to score fewer goals in tougher league than in weaker ones. By logical extension the same is true with free kick takers. I contend that the French league has weaker goalkeepers in terms of standard on average and therfore that it is easier to score more goals from free kciks across a season and that this results in Juninho looking even better than he already is and that Beckham is better. You contention is that the keepers are irrelevant overall due to the quality of the free kick taker, that simply isn't true in my view, it might be for some free kicks but certainly not all and weaker keepers will result in more goals from frre kicks, conversely stronger keepers will result in fewer free kicks scored.

The issue if my contention is correct therfore is merely whether or not the French keepers are of a similar standard to those in the two aforementioned leagues or not as I suggest.


You can totally disagree with me as can anyone, that is fine.
 
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How many free kicks has David Beckham scored from in his career? I'd like to know because for the amount he takes I can't actually remember that many, though my memory is awful. :)
 
being a consistent free kick master is the key on deciding the best free kicker, i believe juninho is the most consistent FK scorer in the world.
 
airjoca said:
vanzandt, how many keepers from the french league can you name?
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I know where you are going with this lgocialy speaking so I'll indulge you and then show you why the answer that you are looking for still falls down on its arse IMO.

I can name ALL of the keepers.

However that is not the point.

The point is how many of them do I know in terms of games seen so my answer is;

Sylva
Coupet
Rame

Probably seen a few more keepers but not so well to say I know all the ins and outs of their game.

Now from that you now logically surmise that I therefore do not have a great enough knowledge of French football and therefore cannot pass judgement.

I am right so far I take it?

To which I say to you;

The logic is VERY poor.

How many keepers do you know in the South Korean league?

How many keepers do you know in the South African league?

How about the US league?

Probably none or not very many at least in one of those leagues; if I have chosen poorly and happened to stray on favourate leagues of yours then forgive me and think of a less successful leagues for whom your knowledge of keepers is in question.

Have you got that mental image?

Good.

Right now can you say whether or not, without the knowledge of those keepers individualy, can you say if the keepers in the EPL, La Liga and seria a are on average superior?

That question is rhetorical you see.

Because the fact is you categorically CAN state that the keepers in the aforementioned leagues ARE superior in terms of the standard, you CAN in fact quite easily say that. And you can do it without knowing any of them individually. You can do it because of your wider football knowledge and of the finances of world football and player movement.

I do not have to know all the players in Ligue 1 to know that the standard of the football is overall poorer than that seen in the major leagues. I have seen enough of it to know that actually...but regardless..

I know enough about football finance and player movement to reach the INEVITABLE conclusion that the overall standard of keepers in keeping with the overall standard of players in France IS lower than that of the stated leagues.

By logical extension if the keepers are poorer it IS easier to score all goals, including free kicks. Therfore I think that someone who has been comprable to Juninho, namely Beckham is superior due to the fact that hje has overall beaten superior keepers in his years in the game.

That is the logic.

If you disagree with me or that logic- fine, then we agree to disagree and no harm is done.


Ret KiT said:
being a consistent free kick master is the key on deciding the best free kicker, i believe juninho is the most consistent FK scorer in the world.
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Yes he has been consistently scoring goals against poorer keepers than Beckham or Sinsa etc.
 
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