Best FIFA or PES for you

[HereForMods]

Had nearly every version of PES since IIS Pro Evolution on PS1

PES 2021 is the best i've ever played by far - I don't know how anyone can think otherwise - modded obviously its on a different planet to anything else

 

[brad86]

Had nearly every version of PES since IIS Pro Evolution on PS1

PES 2021 is the best i've ever played by far - I don't know how anyone can think otherwise - modded obviously its on a different planet to anything else

Because it feels like you're the younger brother that has been handed a controller that isn't really connected, and the person actually playing is your brother sitting next to you.

By that, I mean the game is so scripted due to its massive animation priority that you never truly feel in control. It looks incredible with CPU vs CPU or other people playing, but doing so yourself is a miserable experience. I'll take any tank control PS1/2 Pro Evo any day of the week. At least those games feel alive, are responsive as hell, and enjoyable to play. Enjoyable being an absolutely key factor with regard to any video game.

 

[HereForMods]

Because it feels like you're the younger brother that has been handed a controller that isn't really connected, and the person actually playing is your brother sitting next to you.

By that, I mean the game is so scripted due to its massive animation priority that you never truly feel in control. It looks incredible with CPU vs CPU or other people playing, but doing so yourself is a miserable experience. I'll take any tank control PS1/2 Pro Evo any day of the week. At least those games feel alive, are responsive as hell, and enjoyable to play. Enjoyable being an absolutely key factor with regard to any video game.

"massive animation priority".........I have no idea what that means.

Anyways - quite simply - PES 2021 on PC (there's literally no point in playing PES if you dont have a PC) with mods like VirtuaRed and Twiggy's mods have taken the game FAR beyond anything ever seen on a playstation - no playstation - not even PS5 is capable of handling the sheer amount of content available on PES 2021 today.

I have over 1,000 different stadiums worldwide
Pretty much every major team in the world
All the players I need
The stadiums have realistic camera angles that make it look like a TV Broadcast
Each stadium has it's own unique goal nets
The commentary names are up to date
The player database is up to date
And I can tweak certain aspects of the gameplay to how I want it
I have every kit in europe - for FC Barcelona (my team) I even have kits from 1999-2015

None of those things are available on the old pes games on playstation.

Modders have taken the game to level beyond where konami ever got this game in my opinion -

Even if you look at the base gameplay - you can't even do simple things on PES on playstation like pass a ball along the ground with spin or curl...
finesse shots weren't even introduced until PES 6 etc etc etc

For it's time yes - it was amazing - but PES 2021 is far better in my opinion

 

[Pagi84]

"massive animation priority".........I have no idea what that means.

Anyways - quite simply - PES 2021 on PC (there's literally no point in playing PES if you dont have a PC) with mods like VirtuaRed and Twiggy's mods have taken the game FAR beyond anything ever seen on a playstation - no playstation - not even PS5 is capable of handling the sheer amount of content available on PES 2021 today.

I have over 1,000 different stadiums worldwide
Pretty much every major team in the world
All the players I need
The stadiums have realistic camera angles that make it look like a TV Broadcast
Each stadium has it's own unique goal nets
The commentary names are up to date
The player database is up to date
And I can tweak certain aspects of the gameplay to how I want it
I have every kit in europe - for FC Barcelona (my team) I even have kits from 1999-2015

None of those things are available on the old pes games on playstation.

Modders have taken the game to level beyond where konami ever got this game in my opinion -

Even if you look at the base gameplay - you can't even do simple things on PES on playstation like pass a ball along the ground with spin or curl...
finesse shots weren't even introduced until PES 6 etc etc etc

For it's time yes - it was amazing - but PES 2021 is far better in my opinion

That's great but the AI are kind of boring to play aren't they?

 

[HereForMods]

That's great but the AI are kind of boring to play aren't they?

ALL AI can be boring to play because video games havent got to the stage where a computer can analyse the way you play and counter it / adjust tactics on the fly - to do that games will have to start calculating stats on what areas you are attacking, with which players and then adjust it's tactics on the fly in a way it THINKS will stop you progressing WITHOUT unbalancing the game or mucking up other aspects of it

This isn't going to happen anytime soon as theirs no money in it - the money is in Ultimate Team + microtransactions - that's where gaming is headed

 

[Tibokan]

Interesting poll in that only post-2015 versions that have been cracked are in the voting list, and the classic games have been skipped completely.

Problem is that, in my mind, the best version of FIFA ever released is one that cracked users cannot play, which is the release day 1.00 version of FIFA 16, and the best version of PES is 2013, which isn’t even in the list.

If we limit it to only post-2015 versions that have been cracked, then the answer is probably FIFA 19 Update 4 (ie. CPY) (though FIFA 16 1.07 is close) and PES 2017 (would have been 2019 if it wasn’t for the vanilla AI issues, or 2021 if it had been cracked properly).

 

[PES4eva]

Thread 'Best Football game of all time'
https://evoweb.uk/threads/best-football-game-of-all-time.98485/

 

[ElChachoCoudet]

"massive animation priority".........I have no idea what that means.

He means that the game engine gives priority to the flow of animations rather than to the user input to control movements. The virtual players don't do what the user wants them to do. That's the scripting. In the vanilla game, you feel like battling against the CPU to move the players.

 

[HereForMods]

He means that the game engine gives priority to the flow of animations rather than to the user input to control movements. The virtual players don't do what the user wants them to do. That's the scripting. In the vanilla game, you feel like battling against the CPU to move the players.

Makes absolutely 0 sense

Again - All A.I in these types of games does the same thing.

It will lower your player's/teams's stats + abilities and boost its own OR override those settings - it's the only way the game can be more of a challenge to the user - the AI does not know how to play "better football" - it doesn't even know what "better football" is.

All version of PES ever have had "scripting" - ALL

 

[ElChachoCoudet]

Makes absolutely 0 sense

Again - All A.I in these types of games does the same thing.

It will lower your player's/teams's stats + abilities and boost its own OR override those settings - it's the only way the game can be more of a challenge to the user - the AI does not know how to play "better football" - it doesn't even know what "better football" is.

All version of PES ever have had "scripting" - ALL

I don't think that phantom players going through other players, randomly stopping your movements, or players moving to left when you are pressing the right are just an imbalance of stats.

 

[HereForMods]

I don't think that phantom players going through other players, randomly stopping your movements, or players moving to left when you are pressing the right are just an imbalance of stats.

View attachment 286985

This is not "scripting"

"Scripting" is when the A.I boosts itself or lowers your teams parameters/form/momentum in game.

We know the computer does this - that's why twiggy created AI tweaks - it stops the AI changing certain values which affect how your team plays mid game - without it - the computer boosts itself at certain points or before certain matches, it also boosts YOUR parameters too during certain points to help you win too

 

[ElChachoCoudet]

This is not "scripting".

What is?

Game scripting is the process of writing code that controls the logic, events, and interactions of a game.

 

[ElChachoCoudet]

This is not "scripting"

"Scripting" is when the A.I boosts itself or lowers your teams parameters/form/momentum in game.

We know the computer does this - that's why twiggy created AI tweaks - it stops the AI changing certain values which affect how your team plays mid game - without it - the computer boosts itself at certain points or before certain matches, it also boosts YOUR parameters too during certain points to help you win too

That's only a portion of the scripting. If scripting is controlling the logic of the game, and when you press one key, the game forces you to do the opposite, that's scripting too. And this game has a serious problem between the logics that connect the user input -> movements -> what happens in your screen.

Imho developers weren't able to include all the movements and physics the game needed, so they forced the actions with the few movements they have. There are videos of players running fast to the right and passing the ball to the left with back heel kicks, which are a total nonsense and absolutely unrealistic.

 

[HereForMods]

Game scripting is the process of writing code that controls the logic, events, and interactions of a game.

That's only a portion of the scripting. If scripting is controlling the logic of the game, and when you press one key, the game forces you to do the opposite, that's scripting too. And this game has a serious problem between the logics that connect the user input -> movements -> what happens in your screen.

Imho developers weren't able to include all the movements and physics the game needed, so they forced the actions with the few movements they have. There are videos of players running fast to the right and passing the ball to the left with back heel kicks, which are a total nonsense and absolutely unrealistic.

Do you actually think there is source code in the system which says "when human player inputs move left, move right instead" - I highly doubt that code exists 😂

You are confusing "unrealistic movements" with "scripting" - animations that look wrong or incorrect is NOT scripting.


You can only control 1 player out of 11 at any time in the field - your AI teammates will do stupid things to attempt to let the CPU score and like I said we know for a fact the AI is constantly adjusting values mid-game to game, to make the game harder or easier.

The ball physics are also "scripted" in that deflections just bounce back to the AI opposition a lot of the time or the AI knows where the rebound is going to land before it's even even taken the shot and sends it players that direction - this is simply because the developers didnt know or didnt have the time to code proper ball physics where the ball can move anywhere after a deflection.

These is NORMAL things that happen in ANY football game - they happened on playstation too - it's very simple - computers games are not advanced enough to work any other way.

 

[Chris Davies]

The ball physics are also "scripted" in that deflections just bounce back to the AI opposition a lot of the time or the AI knows where the rebound is going to land before it's even even taken the shot and sends it players that direction - this is simply because the developers didnt know or didnt have the time to code proper ball physics where the ball can move anywhere after a deflection.

You seriously think the ball "deflects" directly to a player's feet (in EAFC for example, it's the only outcome of a deflection) because the developers "don't know" or "didn't have time" to allow the ball to go in a realistic direction?

EA have confirmed in their patch notes on more than one occasion that players complain when they "win the ball" with a tackle and it rolls away, so they patched the game to make the ball "stickier". To "increase the skill gap", or to make it more "fun", as opposed to making a game that acts like football. (I get angry every time I think about it...)

It's hard to classify what "scripting" is, because when someone has an open goal and misses (when their controller is pointing directly at the goal), they will immediately scream "scripted" without taking into account things like the player's attributes, the player's balance, the ball's spin, even the player's emotional state at that time (which genuinely was present in the code you can see when tweaking e.g. FIFA 16 - my favourite example was an AI cooldown timer for when players would "trust" a player who has recently given the ball away, and refuse to pass to them until then).

Is that "scripting", taking a user's input and doing something else with it? (Which you classify as "user presses left, code goes right" in a previous comment.) I don't think so. But either way, because of this debate, games have become simpler, dumber, duller and more boring as a result - with deflections directly to feet one of the direct outcomes.

Same with headers in EAFC; they can fly 80 yards from the softest little chip to a player's head, which is physically impossible - but even weirder is that they are often directly to a player's feet (and is trapped perfectly when it hits the foot at 100mph), which is so enragingly stupid.

That's not because nobody knows how physics works - the physics were great in FIFA 16. It's because the games are a cash-cow now and the focus isn't "how do we make a great football game", it's "how do we simplify this so that the maximum number of people can play it and give us their money".

"Responsiveness" and "reward" (dopamine/addiction) are the new targets - not creating a game about football that rewards a football brain making football-based risk/reward strategic decisions.

Misplacing a pass is impossible in EAFC by default (unless you count passes direct to an opponent). How is this a good thing for anyone other than kids? Should they not have a separate mode (like FUT), or (preferably) a separate game?

 

[ElChachoCoudet]

Do you actually think there is source code in the system which says "when human player inputs move left, move right instead" - I highly doubt that code exists 😂

You are confusing "unrealistic movements" with "scripting" - animations that look wrong or incorrect is NOT scripting.


You can only control 1 player out of 11 at any time in the field - your AI teammates will do stupid things to attempt to let the CPU score and like I said we know for a fact the AI is constantly adjusting values mid-game to game, to make the game harder or easier.

The ball physics are also "scripted" in that deflections just bounce back to the AI opposition a lot of the time or the AI knows where the rebound is going to land before it's even even taken the shot and sends it players that direction - this is simply because the developers didnt know or didnt have the time to code proper ball physics where the ball can move anywhere after a deflection.

These is NORMAL things that happen in ANY football game - they happened on playstation too - it's very simple - computers games are not advanced enough to work any other way.

In my opinion, animations that look wrong on purpose (like a player going through another, so CPU players can do what they need, when you can't do the same) and the computer not taking in consideration user inputs just to force some match actions are heavy scripting. And the base of this problem is the game lacking of a large amount of animations to cover the most common situations. Besides that, you have the stats being modified that is real, and it happens in every other videogame.

If you think that scripting is just an imbalance of stats as you said, try this: put every player stats at 99, download some tool like CheatEngine to keep all those stats at 99, and voailá, you fixed the game scripting. And it's not that simple, because there's a correlation between lack of base movements / wrong animations / inputs not being taken in consideration / stats being changed / game doing whatever it wants.

 

[HereForMods]

You seriously think the ball "deflects" directly to a player's feet (in EAFC for example, it's the only outcome of a deflection) because the developers "don't know" or "didn't have time" to allow the ball to go in a realistic direction?

Yes

I am a software developer (not a very good one and NOT a game developer)

Modders (software developers) have difficultly making NETS bounce accordingly after a ball hits - let alone the work required to make the ball behave like a completely different entity (lol)

THEN - There are other knock on effects from it as well - even if the ball suddenly moved completely "realistically" deflecting all over the place - I wonder if the AI players are smart enough to react to it quickly enough _ correctly....if not you could actually make the game even more UNBALANCED - you would basically have introduced an exploit into the game which makes it easier for you to score and harder for your AI defenders to defend against.

It's easier and quicker to take all that out of the equation by simply allowing the AI to "know" where the ball is going to end up as soon as it's kicked (roughly) and have it react as quickly as possible OR to have the ball find the nearest AI player after a deflection - Yes it's "unfair" on the human players - BUT given the available time, money and effort available - I suspect that's what they went with.

Happens every single day in software industry.

 

[Bing Bing Wahoo]

Do you actually think there is source code in the system which says "when human player inputs move left, move right instead" - I highly doubt that code exists 😂

No, that's not how Fox Engine PES gameplay works. The game first determines the desired outcome, f.e. losing the ball to the opponent, and only then it actually chooses an animation pair for both players resulting in that outcome. So if the game wants you to lose the ball, your player is going to stumble into the opponent regardless of whichever buttons you're pressing.