B-Man's Guide to PES 2021

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)
 

Filippo-Inzaghi

Championship
11 July 2006
Copenhagen
AC Milan
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)

This is really fantastic. Thank you.

I have found my way. The game has it's problems but this year i will go all in without expectations and learn Manual passing from the start. Never got the feeling with that.. This year it could be. And yeah.. With above as inspiration also.
 

StrangelyEnough

League 2
1 September 2020
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)

Great work and exactly why I can’t put pes21 down despite the occasional blip,same with 20..Despite the odd AI irregularity that happens maybe once in every 10 games.There’s so much to love..

Kudos..😇

Nice to see so many advocating the merits of unassisted gameplay..

The Cpu AI literally scuffed a shot in my last game with a open goal,superstar(great to see error because his body position was wrong).

Don’t also forget tactics and instructions can also be counter intuitive(contradict each other)
if set up wrong and how important it is to keep marshalling your back line and keeping key defenders behind the ball,if you don’t want to be easily opened up.

It’s the domino effect while defending or cause and effect..One bad decision or not seeing danger much earlier..Manually tracking runs..filling spaces..I know a lot of people get frustrated by the RAMPED up cpu AI(When it batters your box)which most of the time it is containable,however,there is a high degree of user error and users undoing themselves...By constantly trying to close down the ball carrier or winning the ball back(see the bigger picture and the potential risk,be patient).Also use the long ball and aerial game..Don’t just keep everything on the ground...

Trying to pass forward to quickly or just trying to win the ball all the time will just create the gaps and make it easy for the cpu AI to just pass through you..Pen the Cpu AI in with slow pass and move/build up play.Its only end to end if you allow it or choose to play that way.

I must do a defensive tutorial..

Edit..Just played two games while my misses watched as I wanted to show her the AI problem I posted about earlier..Didn’t happen once..and I was trying everything..I think it’s a command line glitch,the AI triggering the offside command rather then track player/ball..I saw it a lot in pes20 but normally it was my defenders doing it..Just turning away from the ball or player (the animation is the offside animation).Considering I’ve only seen it once in 5 days isn’t out of the realms of normal(this is a classic case of a bad command,or the wrong one).
 
Last edited:

martyl2

Championship
27 February 2010
Tyrone, Ireland
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)

Fantastic post.

A real perspective changer on how to approach PES 21. I for one can get caught up on what has been taken away/removed/lost over the years since Fox Engine started perhaps being ignorant to tactics/roles and their impact in recent iterations.

I think for now going forward, its good to have insight into the mechanics of how PES is built to get the most out of it. Cheers bro!
 

janguv

League 1
2 November 2016
But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!
I mean, if that's really true – if the technique as shown by NXH in that video is the "right" or best way to score crosses – then crossing and heading really are broken! Because that's utterly fucked. Totally removes the requirement to have skill with your input, and would make anyone even on PA1 effectively just like they're on PA3.

I'm assuming/hoping none of that applies on FUMA...
 

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
I mean, if that's really true – if the technique as shown by NXH in that video is the "right" or best way to score crosses – then crossing and heading really are broken! Because that's utterly fucked. Totally removes the requirement to have skill with your input, and would make anyone even on PA1 effectively just like they're on PA3.

I'm assuming/hoping none of that applies on FUMA...

Haha I didn't say I like it! I said that how the gameplay mechanics function and I totally agree it takes away a lot of skill on PA 1 for sure. We make due with what we got bro.
 

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
B Man would you recommend turning advanced instructions off for the cpu?

YES. Especially if you are planning to start a ML. I would go in and turn adv instructions OFF for all the teams in your league. Also I find "long ball" instruction by CPU A.I. in normal tactics is brutal as well. That's where you see a lot of CBs just hoof the ball long up the pitch to the CF.

CPU will turn on and off advanced instructions through out a match anyway but i prefer to start with them turned off
 

rodgerdavies

Championship
28 September 2019
Unfortunately, I feel some of those advanced instructions are near-essential for a team to have any semblance of their real-life tactical approach.

Take Liverpool - on the default game, the full-backs rarely progress past the half way line and are happy to long-ball it to Firmino. They also don't harry and press like the real team do and, in general, it feels PES hasn't worked out how to get the AI pressing correctly when fit - it needs to be the full team pressing their men, not just the players nearest the ball - I think they've not implemented it for many teams because it's way to easy to just chip the man running at the defender to a completely open full-back, who's completely unmarked

Feels like this game engine was designed around tiki-taka sometimes and hasn't quite moved on with the top teams' tactical innovations.


That said, there's so much criticism for PES gameplay because of the odd AI awareness slip that I don't mean the above to sound overly-critical. I think, with tactics tailored correctly, the game actually goes a really good job with player's styles and team styles, just it takes a LOT of tweaking to get the best out of it.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
YES. Especially if you are planning to start a ML. I would go in and turn adv instructions OFF for all the teams in your league. Also I find "long ball" instruction by CPU A.I. in normal tactics is brutal as well. That's where you see a lot of CBs just hoof the ball long up the pitch to the CF.

CPU will turn on and off advanced instructions through out a match anyway but i prefer to start with them turned off
what about "centering targets"?! i like that advanced instruction even when i went through all LaLiga and EPL teams last night to get rid of the adv. instr.!
what about "swarm the box"? i could see those 2 working well... for some teams. if you say, the team is crossing and mates are moving into the pen area by themselves... i'd keep those adv. instr. off...

man, so much deeper stuff to talk about. please let me know your thoughts!

please take into account what @rodgerdavies said!

edit: a lot of Davies's here! playing bayern and controlling one of my fav player always make me remember @Chris Davies ! :LOL:
i'm such a simple person! :D
 

Jake kevern

Non-League
25 September 2017
Is there a way to make a team mate run towards you?
It's easy to make them make a run, but sometimes they're all running forward and I just need someone to step back a bit so I can pass to them
 

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
what about "centering targets"?! i like that advanced instruction even when i went through all LaLiga and EPL teams last night to get rid of the adv. instr.!
what about "swarm the box"? i could see those 2 working well... for some teams. if you say, the team is crossing and mates are moving into the pen area by themselves... i'd keep those adv. instr. off...

man, so much deeper stuff to talk about. please let me know your thoughts!

please take into account what @rodgerdavies said!

edit: a lot of Davies's here! playing bayern and controlling one of my fav player always make me remember @Chris Davies ! :LOL:
i'm such a simple person! :D

Come to think of it, I do think centering targets and/or swarm the box could be useful for some A.I. teams By default especially the lower tier teams in top leagues that rely so much on defending and then trying to get a set piece or a cross to a tall target man for their goals.

However, the general concept for me overall was by taking advanced instructions off for the A.I., the A.I. will just play within their players stats and general team tactics. For example, for those lower tier teams you can still up their compactness and have their back line be deeper without putting on swarm the box. Unfortunately, so much of the advanced instructions Implemented by Konami are so literal in the way the game interprets them.
 

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
Is there a way to make a team mate run towards you?
It's easy to make them make a run, but sometimes they're all running forward and I just need someone to step back a bit so I can pass to them

Jake, if you have your tactics set to counter attack then they will look to run forward. If you set your general tactics to possession players will come show for the ball more.

or at time you could put on the tiki taka advanced instruction to get players to come closer for the ball. You could manually click on a player and move him to run towards you. Most people have it on auto where you I think hold L1 and flick right stick toward the player you want to make a run. If that’s on manually you can control that player and make him run in any direction like towards you.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Come to think of it, I do think centering targets and/or swarm the box could be useful for some A.I. teams By default especially the lower tier teams in top leagues that rely so much on defending and then trying to get a set piece or a cross to a tall target man for their goals.

However, the general concept for me overall was by taking advanced instructions off for the A.I., the A.I. will just play within their players stats and general team tactics. For example, for those lower tier teams you can still up their compactness and have their back line be deeper without putting on swarm the box. Unfortunately, so much of the advanced instructions Implemented by Konami are so literal in the way the game interprets them.
That’s what I was thinking of. The lower league teams might take advantage of some of the advance instructions. Could be helpful.
And again, it’s about to use the tools Konami gives you at hands wisely, not spamming them (like sprinting).

please people, don’t come at me, but there is a way to “play this game right”! It’s called football knowledge and putting that on the pitch via a controller (the Konami structure of a football game in mind).
If you do that, there is basically a good game running in our consoles. And yes, I’m still aware of the flaws it has, and they’re bugging me a lot of times, believe you me ! I’m not denying that!
Jake, if you have your tactics set to counter attack then they will look to run forward. If you set your general tactics to possession players will come show for the ball more.

or at time you could put on the tiki taka advanced instruction to get players to come closer for the ball. You could manually click on a player and move him to run towards you. Most people have it on auto where you I think hold L1 and flick right stick toward the player you want to make a run. If that’s on manually you can control that player and make him run in any direction like towards you.
And that’s exactly what I do. I would like to set up some teams with advance instructions but I turning them all off from the start, enabling them when needed (For a few sec or min)!

I do trust klashmans tactics a lot. I set them up sooooo many times. And I’m thankful for the effort and the work he’s putting into creating those tactics, but I’m still not 100% satisfied with me setting up my teams, on my console, to my liking of real life football!

Sounds weird I guess. But it’s not. It’s only my poor English knowledge to describe it in detail. sometimes I feel so lost of words to describe what I mean. But that’s not your problem! 😂
 
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tinpanalley

Premiership
15 May 2006
The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal....I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.
How do we remove all advanced instructions from all teams? I assume for this to work well, CPU teams need to not be using advanced either, right?
 

B-Man

League 2
17 December 2015
USA
Inter
Through tinkering I am finding there is a place for some teams to utilize advanced instructions but most teams have deep defensive line which is the worst instruction in the game because it creates so much more pace between the lines than what is already there.
 

tinpanalley

Premiership
15 May 2006
Through tinkering I am finding there is a place for some teams to utilize advanced instructions but most teams have deep defensive line which is the worst instruction in the game because it creates so much more pace between the lines than what is already there.
So is that what you recommend then? Go through each team in edit mode before starting a league and remove all advanced instructions and place a normal defensive line? Would be great if we had an editing tool on PC for this...
 

martyl2

Championship
27 February 2010
Tyrone, Ireland
So is that what you recommend then? Go through each team in edit mode before starting a league and remove all advanced instructions and place a normal defensive line? Would be great if we had an editing tool on PC for this...

Yeah, I think this is what Klashman advocates in his tactics also. It's a shame the option files do not transfer tactics.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Yeah, I think this is what Klashman advocates in his tactics also. It's a shame the option files do not transfer tactics.
PESuniverse once included them in an OF, afair.
I liked that as it meant less editing work for the user.
If all teams from an OF had at least disabled all advanced instructions... that would save some time.
 

tinpanalley

Premiership
15 May 2006
PESuniverse once included them in an OF, afair.
I liked that as it meant less editing work for the user.
If all teams from an OF had at least disabled all advanced instructions... that would save some time.
Wait, so is this a thing people have known about for a long time? I've been playing for, well, a long time -- since PES5 -- and have never heard of this tactic. Makes total sense, I'm just surprised I've never heard of it. (...tried it last night by the way and it does make a difference)
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Wait, so is this a thing people have known about for a long time? I've been playing for, well, a long time -- since PES5 -- and have never heard of this tactic. Makes total sense, I'm just surprised I've never heard of it. (...tried it last night by the way and it does make a difference)


Ode to @klashman69

Many years, before this date,
a boy was born called klashman mate.
that boy who loved his football game,
became a man and got aflame.
he had that passion, it was galactic,
and that passion was called tactic.

Tinkering so many hours,
you can’t imagine what he devours,
then took this knowledge, to good use,
to show the world and introduce,
those tactics that made PES so snappy,
and a lot of users happy.

:LOVE:
 
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gabe.paul.logan

Retired Footballer
7 January 2007
Budapest
Hungary
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)

Dont you find the AI on Top Player too "easy". By that i mean it rarely attacks, it can defend well but mid-low teams are pretty poor at attacking. Still the top teams can cheat to win by the scripting. Now on Superstar all teams play like Bayern Munchen in the Bayern v Barca match.
Horrific dificulty balancing.
 

klashman69

Fight the Power!
28 November 2007
I Travel.
Hi Guys!

For all the Master League PES Heads I've been wanting to do a post for awhile now on Player Styles as well as "Inspire" feature ( remember that? lol )and how they effect the gameplay.

First off, there are a ton of great youtube pes tutorials out there to find but really check out the tutorial videos from NXH PES on youtube. He really helped me get better at different aspects of PES. For example, a lot of people have complained about crossing and headers over the last few months for 2020 and his tutorial really helped me and I score a lot more headers now especially with Haaland and Ibra in my 2020 ML.

The problem is Konami does a REALLY bad job of explaining their game. Using crossing/headers as an example, normal thinking is "I am going to aim my cross toward my intended target and tap the shot button when the ball is about to reach my target's head." But how the process of crossing and heading actually functions to get the highest success rate is not aiming with the left analog stick and also loading up the shot bar right after the cross leaves your player's foot. As explained by the video below. If I never saw this video, I would have thought crossing and heading was broken because I used to struggle big time!


The other thing I wanted to share with you guys is regards to play styles and how advanced instructions should be used situationally in a match. Here is one of the videos explaining the midfield play styles, their pros and cons, but more importantly the movements of the player. ( I couldn't find someone doing a console version, this is from the mobile game but the concepts/movement is the same for the console version of the game)


The reason I wanted to do a post about this is because I see a lot of players play the game with advanced instructions on the entire time. most of the advanced instructions take away the movements of your players play styles because the instructions are to literal.

Using my 2020 ML team as an example, my tactics are 4-2-3-1 long ball counter attack cause I have a front 3 that can run and dribble so why play possession when I have gazelles? Here is my starting midfield and strikers:

CF Haaland (Adv striker)
LMF Pulisic (roaming flank) AMF Odegaard (Creative playmaker) RWF Sancho (Prolific Winger)
Camavinga (Anchor man) De Jong (Orchestrator)

Each play style has different movements for the player. Sancho tends to stay wide and higher up the pitch and makes wide runs behind the LB. Pulisic as a LMF he gets back more defensively instead of as a winger and his roaming flank style he's tends to make diagonal runs inside between the opponents RB and CB. I am thinking of making Odegaard a hole player if I am going to stick with counters we'll see.

Camavinga sits in front of the back line to protect the midfield and De Jong as an orchestrator is the guy that pulls the strings. De Jong, with his high passing "Inspire" traits--I try to get him the ball to start counters as when he gets the ball my front 3 start making runs into space anticipating De Jong to him them long.

But De Jong stays in midfield and doesn't venture into or around the box. (Unless I send him directly on runs)

So when I come up against an opponent that sits deep in a low block and I need to play a more possession game to break them down, I bring on Foden who i trained to be box-to-box. Unlike De Jong, Foden makes runs into the box and combines with wingers and strikers. When I bring 40 yr old super sub Ibra on for Haaland, I change to a possession tactic, hold up play, allow for my fullbacks to overlap and get forward and whip in crosses to Ibra or have Ibra do combination with with my wingers cause Ibra can't run for shit ha so no use playing counter attack with him on the pitch.

Now for advanced instructions and how they play their part. Certain advanced instructions like tight marking or counter target or defensive can be useful to have on for a full match depending on what you are trying to do. But most advanced instructions should be used situationally because they override most of the goodness that pes has. And literally if i am being honest, the player ID, play styles, player skills are like the only real goodness and its this stuff that keeps me going back.

As I said in my previous post. Why put on attacking fullbacks if you have two fullbacks that have the offensive fullback play style? Makes no sense because that advanced instruction drops you DMF into the backline taking him completely out of the run of play.

Here is a classic situation of how I use the advanced instructions. I was down 0-1 to Newcastle in my 2020 ML. They reverted to a low block the rest of the match. Towards the end of the match I changed my tactics to possession but I was still struggling to break them down. So I brought on Ibra for Haaland who was getting gassed. I turned ON hug the touchline and centering targets. With players out wide I was able to get some overlaps and underlaps from my fullbacks and whip in crosses into the box hoping to connect with Ibra and before the final whistle i executed an overlap with Alexander-Arnold getting in behind and sending a near post cross that Ibra headed home! Finished 1-1 and it was a classic entertaining match of trying to find a way through against a stubborn opponent.

The problem is if I had centering targets and hug the touchline on the entire match, it would have negated a lot of the natural A.I. movements of my players play styles. This is something Robbye and I discussed awhile back which he agreed.

To wrap this up, think of play styles as puzzle pieces. You want to build a team where the pieces fit together for the tactics you are employing. Because I know my players play styles as well as their "Inspire" traits like the back of my hand and their movements, I can anticipate the runs that are going to happen and really create some great football. No complicated advanced instructions needed for a whole match, just playing football.

I promise you guys, take off advanced instructions, use them situationally, get to really really know your players play styles, skill traits, and their inspire traits! you put a good team together where these pieces fit and you can play some really good football the way you want to play and it just feels good. Thats why I keep coming back even with all the faults.

Anyway that's my rant I just wanted to share in case some of you don't know the depths of this stuff. All just completely changed the game for me and I get more enjoyment out of it now. :)
Beautiful writeup.

Sorry I missed tour message, I dont use twitter much. Your better or PM me on here for any queries.
 

tinpanalley

Premiership
15 May 2006
it could be included into an option file. we had that with PESuni. easy import and you had @klashman69 tactics.
not sure what tool to use to edit the teams gameplan on PC (from OF). other users do know for sure.
Ok, so essentially you go into each team in edit mode and just remove all LT-dpad advanced instructions? I tried it with my team and another team and when the CPU was playing, their little advanced instructions were still highlighting while they played but it wouldn't say anything. Can we safely assume it's just going through the motions but not getting to select the strategy? Interesting though that the CPU still 'tries' to activate the advanced instruction. I guess the best thing would be to deactivate them altogether somehow.
@klashman69
 

klashman69

Fight the Power!
28 November 2007
I Travel.
Ok, so essentially you go into each team in edit mode and just remove all LT-dpad advanced instructions? I tried it with my team and another team and when the CPU was playing, their little advanced instructions were still highlighting while they played but it wouldn't say anything. Can we safely assume it's just going through the motions but not getting to select the strategy? Interesting though that the CPU still 'tries' to activate the advanced instruction. I guess the best thing would be to deactivate them altogether somehow.
@klashman69

CPU always utilities 'tight marking' on a player who plays well for your team or even has many ttoiches on the ball.

CPU will use 'Deep defensive Line' If they feel they are allowing too many chances on goal or for damage limitation. They also sometimes use 'Swarm the Box' if you try multiple crosses.

This is why it's bullshit Konami give so many teams 'Deep defensive line' Its not needed.
 

Echoes In My Head

Non-League
28 September 2020
Great post!

Have to say it’s been a long time since I played so many matches back to back in pes. Some issues still exist which drive me mad such as questionable free kicks being given and ML issues due to team spirit, but the latter makes sense to me and is just implemented a bit sloppily.

Manual settings have been a breath of fresh air and are working nicely with the more responsive control of players. Really enjoying using Theo Hernandez and Martial. Also really enjoying the range of passing, I’ve watched countless replays of Ginter playing long balls to the flanks from the back.
 
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