Awareness of our subject, and cheating in video games.

[Sabatasso]

Well anyone can say that, i mean there is no point in saying that really, not just being a wizard at PES means absolute nothing, it's just a video game, but i mean how can anyone tell if your good? Anyone can big themselves up on the net, it's just words. Best to provide some videos I'd say.

You miss the point completely, I am actually starting to question the perspective you claim to have. My whole point is that once you're "good", the game will make sure you get competition. Ofcourse you'll still win most games if you're "good", but then there's very little resembling football left in the game. The speed rises, AI gets freakishly good reaction and so on. It is imposing stress rather than being a stress relief, if you know what I mean.

There should be a way to turn that off without having to sacrifice having a decent opponent (i.e playing on "normal".)

 

[jammiedodger]

Lol, I don't analyse the replay to find excuses for losing. I betatest gameplay patches and they try to nail the cheating scripts, so I have to check them out.

Yes, It happens with CPU team, but not in the same amount it does with the human team. When you play with red arrows for your team and lets say green or worse for the CPU team, you will see more cheating scripts and a lot of ghosting. I'm pretty sure the form arrows trigger the scripts. Play matches with green arrows for both teams and you will see almost none.

I was referring to Gerd not yourself Blanco when typing the post. Should have quoted him.

 

[klashman69]

This is why i play on -2 all the time offline vs the CPU,

this is why i enjoy PES, this demonstrates why i like the game so much.

the difference in control you have with players:
YouTube - PES 2012 -2 speed setting ball control

Look at Gordons poor ball control because of his stats and how limited e is on the ball, i lobe this, just like here with Heskey:
YouTube - Emile Heskey Does A Step Over England v Algeria

Both fall over trying to hit the ball.

On -1 or faster, the ball control difference is not as big compared to on -2, it's not like how it was I PES 2011, or like the grandad turns in PES 2010. This is what adds so much challenge to the game, this actually again like i said reduces the cheating because less CPU players are able to turning quickly, this is the sim i like to play.

I know all the tricks and know how to use the left stick along with L2, R2 and all the sensitive dribble functions to beat players, this is why i love it when i play with crap players, it forces you to use their strengths. So you don't beat 6 players with Gattuso. You take his dribbling ability into account.

It makes every player handle differently, you need to learn to understand your team, whats the best way to handle them off and on the ball, if players fell the same it takes away so much depth, takes away so much which you need to consider, there's no need to concern a players first touch or his dribbling ability in situations, if they are all the same you just play the same way since you know it works.

This isn't for everyone however, not everyone likes this but it's great for me. This is probably why i don't get affect by cheating as much as others, i know its there but the instances where the CPU can cheat are reduced.

 

[klashman69]

You miss the point completely, I am actually starting to question the perspective you claim to have. My whole point is that once you're "good", the game will make sure you get competition. Ofcourse you'll still win most games if you're "good", but then there's very little resembling football left in the game. The speed rises, AI gets freakishly good reaction and so on. It is imposing stress rather than being a stress relief, if you know what I mean.

There should be a way to turn that off without having to sacrifice having a decent opponent (i.e playing on "normal".)

Well no, even when the CPU hit god mode, the game dosen't go into arcade heaven like you say, on faster speeds possibly, like it did at times vs Roma on -1. But not for me on -2

 

[gerd]

I was referring to Gerd not yourself Blanco when typing the post. Should have quoted him.

Where did i ever wrote that i analyze replays? I never watch them.
I should never have written that i consider myself a bad player, because this for some people this site is all about bragging how good they are. I don't care about being good, i never play online.

I just want to enjoy myself in single player. And the game has changed enormously.

How is it possible that with the PS2 versions of the game i could win ML silverware and in the PS3 and 360 era i'm useless (except for PES2011 which had obvious flaws, but where i could play fantastic football with teams like Villareal).

To me PES2012 is frustrating. Games should not be frustrating. And this should have nothing to do with the abilities of a player, both weak and strong players should enjoy a game.

Konami are now talking about PES2013 but can you have confidence in a development team that is still changing the gameplay (with DLC patches) 7 months after the release of the game? The gameplay of PES2012 was perfect in the demo i played and yet they changed it and completely screwed it up.

 

[Blanco]

Regarding cheating I've noticed something weird and it might sound ridiculous to some...


Yesterday I've played a few matches on PC with Ajax vs AZ, I won most of them. Then I went down to the kitchen to prepare dinner, came back, Alt-tabbed out of PES to watch an episode of a serie while I ate. Later I closed VLC player and AL-tabbed back to PES and played a few matches, same teams, same conditions.
Immediately I felt a change in gamespeed, it was much faster than before. (I was playing on -2) Also a shitload of scripted events, EVERY freekick went, I'm not kidding every freekick! Team reaction was slower than before, and my player got disabled with every rebound chance.
My best matches were draws, when I lost they killed me with 6-0, 5-1's and so on. 2 hours earlier I won most matches.

It's not the first time I've noticed this...

edit: I've played that same match again today and guess what?
I won it 5-1, a walk in the park.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I'm really not sure that playing on various game speeds actually does anything to player ball control etc. It merely speeds the whole process up from player movement to ball speed. It's a basic add-on that Konami put into the game, and they certainly don't have time to fart around with adjusting the game physics at different speed settings.

I think playing at a slower speed merely gives the illusion that things are more considered and stat heavy, when really, they're not.

 

[Sabatasso]

Well no, even when the CPU hit god mode, the game dosen't go into arcade heaven like you say, on faster speeds possibly, like it did at times vs Roma on -1. But not for me on -2

OK, obviously your definition of "arcade" is different than mine. Stop nitpicking minor details, everything I've said actually do happen in the game. If you don't want to call it cheats, fine, but don't tell me that it's because I play the game with the wrong mindset. I say it is a poor design and could easily been done better, I don't really give a damn if you have a different opinion than me on that. In the end we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I have to admit that your "Let me teach you how to accept being cheated" talk really annoys me. Your so-called analyse of PES12's less attractive features does not impress me much.

 

[Nobleknight]

I'm really not sure that playing on various game speeds actually does anything to player ball control etc. It merely speeds the whole process up from player movement to ball speed. It's a basic add-on that Konami put into the game, and they certainly don't have time to fart around with adjusting the game physics at different speed settings.

I think playing at a slower speed merely gives the illusion that things are more considered and stat heavy, when really, they're not.

spot on ,That's just their minds believe it more of a simulation when you slow things down.

For me default game speed with 15-20 Mins are better than slower speeds ,let alone +1 or +2 which I don't know why they are there ingame.

 

[klashman69]

I'm really not sure that playing on various game speeds actually does anything to player ball control etc. It merely speeds the whole process up from player movement to ball speed. It's a basic add-on that Konami put into the game, and they certainly don't have time to fart around with adjusting the game physics at different speed settings.

I think playing at a slower speed merely gives the illusion that things are more considered and stat heavy, when really, they're not.

spot on ,That's just their minds believe it more of a simulation when you slow things down.

For me default game speed with 15-20 Mins are better than slower speeds ,let alone +1 or +2 which I don't know why they are there ingame.

YouTube - PES 2012 -2 speed setting ball control

so this is inconclusive? It sems clear to me in PES 2011, that the game physics wher affected massivley by the time length in matches and the diffcualy level. Top player 15 mintues in PES 2011 was a totally different game to Top player 30 mintues. This is scripting also.

10 minutes on -2 in PES 2011 was the same game but at a good nice pace. 25 minutes on PES 2011 on -2 was just stupid, unnaturally slow.

This is no placebo, this was deliberate. my friend used to play PES 2011 on top player 10 mintues with chelsea and he used to do fine, got to champions league quarters, beating barca but losing to madrid. I accidently left the game on 25 minutes, he played vs marseille he wa 5-0 down by half tiem, he said the game felt totally different.

In PES 2012, they decided to change it so the gamespeed affected the realsim more prominently rather than the time length affecting the realsim, people were complaining about the game especially on 10 mintues, rightfully vs the CPU. the gameplay on 0 speed is the same regaless of the time length. Same with -2, the CPU do tend to play slight slower and mroe considered on longer mataches butt game isn't totally diferent like in PES 2011.

It gives use to the gamespeeds now.

i really don't know what else to say really.

 

[henrys hand]

Where did i ever wrote that i analyze replays? I never watch them.
I should never have written that i consider myself a bad player, because this for some people this site is all about bragging how good they are. I don't care about being good, i never play online.

I just want to enjoy myself in single player. And the game has changed enormously.

How is it possible that with the PS2 versions of the game i could win ML silverware and in the PS3 and 360 era i'm useless (except for PES2011 which had obvious flaws, but where i could play fantastic football with teams like Villareal).

To me PES2012 is frustrating. Games should not be frustrating. And this should have nothing to do with the abilities of a player, both weak and strong players should enjoy a game.

Konami are now talking about PES2013 but can you have confidence in a development team that is still changing the gameplay (with DLC patches) 7 months after the release of the game? The gameplay of PES2012 was perfect in the demo i played and yet they changed it and completely screwed it up.

PES 2012 is a whole other beast than PES 2011 and that is because of the new AI. Every big mistake on pro or higher difficulty gets punished. But it isn't different in real football.

Playing on regular or lower doesn't help much cause not only the CPU gets dumber but your own teammembers as well. The only advantage in the lower levels is that you have more time on the ball, ie. you can do some goals by outdribbling the CPU-defenders, but you have no advantage if you rely on a passing-game.

I would just play on top-player and deal with the challenge, your teammembers are cleverer and you can play some good passing-football.

The cheating is now with patch 1.06 minimal on top-player.

What you need to do to succeed is to get your tactics right. For example choose a formation with 4 people in the defense, then don't rely on the offside-trap, it will cost you, don't have a too high defense line. Very important is to have the right level of compactness, if it is on 10 or higher, your defense will be very loose organized and any good dribbler will rip your defense up and eat it for breakfast.

With a level of 6 for compactness you have a tight defense but it restricts the possibilities in the attacking zone as well, so maybe it's better to have it on 7 or 8.

R2 is your friend in defense, use training-mode to get accustomed to R2-defending, tapping it at the right time will do wonders to your defending capabilities.

Look at the tactic-screen and see if your player's abilitiy-levels have been reduced and let them have some rest and put in other players with higher abilities. During the 70th-minute it can be advantageous to change in some fresh players.

Find the right relation between playersupport and offensive or defensive behaviour. Then, don't forget to look at the tactical help screen, there you can define the attacking-mentality to be defensive, offensive or super-offensive or neutral...

On the pitch, when harassed by the CPU pressuring, don't let it intimade you, you can shield the ball, don't just pass the ball away hastily when the CPU pressures you, shield the ball, take your time and make a good pass to someone who is really free.

Last but not least, get accustomed to use L2-passing in the last third of the pitch, it will do for your attacking-capabilities what R2 did for your defensive ones. With it you can make much more clever throughballs (you don't need the automated throughball-button anymore) and give the ball to the intended receiver, instead of letting the game decide (mostly wrong) who the pass was intended for.. in short it makes clever passing football possible, it's a blessing.

Have fun.