Arsenal Thread

Godotelli said:
He hasn't won anything in 8 years, and yet he's something like the 4th highest paid manager in the world. He simply does not deserve it. And he has the nerve to moan about money and wages... You'd think that he'd do something about the ticket prices if he was earning his 7-8m a year doing something other than bringing success on the field!
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If you look at trophies won in the last 8 years then so be it he is not worth it. We can come to the conclusion that nobody is worth that amount of money anyway. But I think most people within Arsenal look beyond the trophies and base his value on much more than trophies. Which again, most other clubs have to do with their clubs, because only a tiny percentage of all the teams in the world have continuous success. The same reason why Moyes has been at Everton for many years without winning much. A football team is much more than about winning trophies, otherwise there would only be a couple of teams in every league.

But the 'boss' should really get more than the 'workers' as they have more responsibility.

Wenger at Arsenal should be the highest paid, I don't think it matters what others get around the world.

I think people can have the nerve to moan about players wages and money, because that is really what is the problem. There are far less managers than players and imo the manager should get more money than any player. If every top manager got paid around 150k a week and the top players got around 50-70k a week tops it would be in a much better position than it is now.
 
Godotelli said:
He hasn't won anything in 8 years, and yet he's something like the 4th highest paid manager in the world. He simply does not deserve it. And he has the nerve to moan about money and wages... You'd think that he'd do something about the ticket prices if he was earning his 7-8m a year doing something other than bringing success on the field!
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He has taken Arsenal from a (internationally) fairly anonymous club and made them immortal, established them as a trademark as one of the most known clubs throughout the world of football. He has also established their style as a sought after model to follow, both on and off the pitch. Arsenal have a healthy economy, a brand new stadium and is currently one of the most popular clubs in the world...

He doesn't deserve it?
If he doesn't then nobody does...
Hasn't won anything? (Do you even know what "anything" mean?)
OK, he might not have won a trophy in eight years, but he sure as hell has won a lot during those last eight years. How about immortality for the club?

Arsene Wenger made most of the memories Gunners fans like to think back on today, without him there wouldn't likely have been much. Graham might have won some trophies as well, but I think we can all agree that even Gunners fans weren't proud of the way they played back then. Wenger brought the proudness into the club, the playful entertaining football, the trademark.

Some people...
 
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BobbyBox said:
If you look at trophies won in the last 8 years then so be it he is not worth it. We can come to the conclusion that nobody is worth that amount of money anyway. But I think most people within Arsenal look beyond the trophies and base his value on much more than trophies. Which again, most other clubs have to do with their clubs, because only a tiny percentage of all the teams in the world have continuous success. The same reason why Moyes has been at Everton for many years without winning much. A football team is much more than about winning trophies, otherwise there would only be a couple of teams in every league.

But the 'boss' should really get more than the 'workers' as they have more responsibility.

Wenger at Arsenal should be the highest paid, I don't think it matters what others get around the world.

I think people can have the nerve to moan about players wages and money, because that is really what is the problem. There are far less managers than players and imo the manager should get more money than any player. If every top manager got paid around 150k a week and the top players got around 50-70k a week tops it would be in a much better position than it is now.
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The argument that 'nobody is worth that much' is exactly why I compared his wages to other managers.

Whether or not it'd be better if managers got paid more than players, Arsene being the 4 or 5th best paid manager on the planet means that, comparatively speaking, he is being vastly overpaid, something he complains about when talking about players.


Sabatasso said:
He has taken Arsenal from a (internationally) fairly anonymous club and made them immortal, established them as a trademark as one of the most known clubs throughout the world of football. He has also established their style as a sought after model to follow, both on and off the pitch. Arsenal have a healthy economy, a brand new stadium and is currently one of the most popular clubs in the world...

He doesn't deserve it?
If he doesn't then nobody does...
Hasn't won anything? (Do you even know what "anything" mean?)
OK, he might not have won a trophy in eight years, but he sure as hell has won a lot during those last eight years. How about immortality for the club?

Arsene Wenger made most of the memories Gunners fans like to think back on today, without him there wouldn't likely have been much. Graham might have won some trophies as well, but I think we can all agree that even Gunners fans weren't proud of the way they played back then. Wenger brought the proudness into the club, the playful entertaining football, the trademark.

Some people...
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By "anything" I'm obviously talking about trophies.

No club, business or institution is immortal.

If your only argument for him being paid such amounts is to talk about the past or talk about accountancy then you are either very sentimental or very appreciative of accountants. For such an 'immortal trademark' to go nearly a decade without a single triumph in any competition on the pitch (you know, the thing that separates football from an office job) is a huge failure, and the buck stops with the 150k a week mana... sorry, accountant.
 
Be careful what you wish for...

I respect Arsenal more than any other club (including my own!) for how it is run and managed by Arsene and the board.

I am envious to what Arsenal has become under Arsene Wenger over the last 15 years.

I only wish Liverpool had been ran in the same manner over the same time period. We have lost our soul. Arsenal has a clear identity and Arsenal fans you should feel proud for that. A large part of this is down to Arsene.

Oh and you will beat Bayern tonight... :BOP:
 
Godotelli said:
The argument that 'nobody is worth that much' is exactly why I compared his wages to other managers.

Whether or not it'd be better if managers got paid more than players, Arsene being the 4 or 5th best paid manager on the planet means that, comparatively speaking, he is being vastly overpaid, something he complains about when talking about players.
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You would be hard pressed to find a manager out of that top 5 managers that has had the effect that Arsene has had at Arsenal on the teams that they manage.

Since he has been at the club, the trophies he has won, the world standing of the club, the 'Brand', the players that have passed through the club, the football we have played (although becoming a distant memory :(( ) etc etc

Again it goes way beyond trophies.
 
BobbyBox said:
You would be hard pressed to find a manager out of that top 5 managers that has had the effect that Arsene has had at Arsenal on the teams that they manage.

Since he has been at the club, the trophies he has won, the world standing of the club, the 'Brand', the players that have passed through the club, the football we have played (although becoming a distant memory :(( ) etc etc

Again it goes way beyond trophies.
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So you're paying him huge amounts (and he's happy to take it) for what he did in the past?
Are you going to keep paying him after he leaves the club?

How much is the job he is doing right now (or over the past few years) worth?
 
Godotelli said:
So you're paying him huge amounts (and he's happy to take it) for what he did in the past?
Are you going to keep paying him after he leaves the club?

How much is the job he is doing right now (or over the past few years) worth?
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I like the 'He's happy to take it' in brackets :LOL: If you think Wenger is happy that he hasn't won anything in all these years then I think you are living in another world.

We are paying him for what he did in the past and what he continues to do. We pay him for his loyalty to the club and the fact he has been here for so many years and improved our club greatly over the years.

Arsenal have in this 8 years, got to finals and semi finals, been in the champions league season after season and qualified out of the group stages for many of them, challenged for the league a couple of times and stayed in that top 4.

He hasn't done 'sod all' but yes it is disappointing that we haven't won anything to say the least.

But I don't think he is a hypocrite for calling out players wages, there are players that get paid more than Wenger in the world that haven't achieved any where near what Wenger has in the game.

Again you base his wages on Trophies, I don't and obviously Arsenal don't.
 
Anyway, to tonight.

We will be very lucky to get through, Bayern are killing their league and have the meanest defence in Europe I think? and they are scoring goals as well.

Hopefully we can get a result tonight, being at home, but if they score an away goal, which I think will happen (MAybe more than 1 :(( ), then we are in trouble as I don't think we will get much at their place.

Anyway, lets hope that our team give the 100% that is required and then anything is possible :DD
 
Bayern only conceded 7 goals in the Bundesliga until now.
The strange thing is that they did concede 7 goals in 6 CL matches (3 against Bate Borisov in one match).
To have a chance Arsenal will have to play 2 perfect mtaches and i honestly don't see this squad capable of doing that, but we have seen stranger things in football...IMO this Arsenal is definitely better than last season's Chelsea and they did win the CL.

Godotelli, you think too much in short perspective.
Generally results are important to assess managers, but Wenger is one of the few managers who has done more than having good results. Before Wenger took over, Arsenal was "boring Arsenal". On the continent we still talk about a 1-0 win as an "Arsenal score". Wenger transformed this boring club into a sexy, attractive, global "brand". In modern football this is more important than resluts and silverware.
In the history of football there aren't much coaches/managers who had the impact Wenger has had on Arsenal: Michels (Ajax, but that was more Cruijff), Cruijff (Barcelona), Sacchi (Milan) and perhaps now Klopp (but it is too soon to judge him).
 
Wenger is on 130k which is a lot ,but I think he makes that ,because players haven`t stayed long enough.


"In the last 15 months I am the best manager in England," said Mancini. [...]

"Someone says for six months that Manchester City would change manager, Guardiola would come in, and after Guardiola went to Bayern Munich, now another manager.

"I won one Premier League, one FA Cup, one charity shield, there is not another manager that's won like me in the last 15 months.

"I can do nothing but it is the reality."
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Every manager wants to run on their reputation ! :)
 
Sabatasso said:
He has taken Arsenal from a (internationally) fairly anonymous club and made them immortal, established them as a trademark as one of the most known clubs throughout the world of football.
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I dont think you can really describe pre-Wenger Arsenal as an anonymous club. In the George Graham era they won the league twice (89 & 91 in 1990-1 they had only lost one game), won both domestic cups in 1993 and won the Cup Winners Cup in 1994. Even after he left and Bruce Rioch was in charge again they got to the Cup Winners Cup Final in 1995. It's all very well to say Wenger is a great coach, which he is (or maybe "was" is better as imo the game has evolved and he to an extent hasnt, but thats another arguement) but this idea that Arsenal were some hum-drum non entity of a club before Wenger is absurd and wrong. Your description of them being an anonymous club isn't correct, and more sinsterly denegrates the substantial sucess that George Graham got at the club. Indeed some would say that much of Wenger's sucess was built off the back of the team (specifically defence) that George Graham made.
 
I partly agree edmundo, but Arsenal were so boring and Wenger made them into one of the most attractive teams that got lots of fans on the continent. That wasn't the case in the 70's , the 80's and under Graham...
 
Godotelli said:
Whether or not it'd be better if managers got paid more than players, Arsene being the 4 or 5th best paid manager on the planet means that, comparatively speaking, he is being vastly overpaid, something he complains about when talking about players.
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Is Arsene not one of the best managers in world football? As everyone except fans of certain clubs realise, the only real way to predict results is to look at money. For his entire career Arsene's teams have over-achieved compared to what he has to spend.

Coming 4th may not look like a great achievement in isolation, but does anyone honestly believe that Wenger wouldn't win the league with Man City's squad? Or does anyone honestly believe that Rafa or Mancini would have Arsenal competing with the 2 Manchester clubs? There's nothing in any of their careers to suggest this to be the case.

It's boring and it's annoying for fans of certain clubs (and leagues) but it's all about money. Wenger outperforms almost every other manager at elite clubs in terms of squeezing the most out of his budget. Arsenal don't have the means to sit alongside Bayern, Chelsea, City, United and the 2 Spanish clubs - so why does everyone expect them to?

In the past few seasons most of the above teams have easily strengthened their teams to the tune of at least 200m euros or so. While Arsenal have posted a profit. I mean, what do people expect?!
 
Not that I was expecting Arsenal to have a chance or anything, but I was at least looking forward to a great match. But so far we didn't turn up.

For all the good things Wenger did and still does, how can one explain the state this team is in?
Does Wenger use his resources and players properly? I think not anymore.

We are being eaten alive by Bayern and once again it's looking like boys against men. WTF does Wenger hope to achieve using Ramsey improvised in the wing?

And Walcott in the middle? Against Bayern? Every cross we put in, I'm thinking where is Giroud?

Now we are 0-2 behind, I saw us hurling balls at Walcott for the best part of the 1st half. Bayern defenders have him in his back pocket, and now that they're leading their defence is tight. It's not as if there's space for Walcott and Cazorla.
But I'll wager Wenger will wait till the 65th minute to throw Giroud in and maybe other like for like substitutions. Keeping his pathetic 4-3-3.

Painful to watch.

This team has no cutting edge at all. Football lesson from Bayern so far.
On to the 2nd half (I can't believe I'm putting myself through this)
 
I think the match in Munich will be our last Champions League for at least a year and a half. Hopefully the boys will be able to go out in style, like last year.
 
Bayern are another level above Arsenal and some other teams currently in CL, so it´s not that big surprise they won tonight. I think for Arsenal it should be biger loss they are out of FA Cup, since they could actually do something in that competition rather than CL where let´s be honest, they have less chance against Bayern to go through.
 
Should have been 3-0 to Bayern. I think the ref took pity on us and gave us that corner.
Seriously though, how many shots did we muster?

It's not good enough for CL, if we don't get 4th place we can't complain, maybe we don't belong in this competition anymore.

I'm sick and tired of fruitless experimentations with players out of position. Sick and tired of having mostly light midgets in this squad.
Our team (and the initial formation indicates this) plays to score tap-ins.
Our players not only are much less physical than Bayern's for instance, but they run much less when we're not in possession.
It's clearly not working, yet Wenger is insisting in the same stuff! He's basically repeating the same things and expecting different results.

For the umpteenth time we are "found out" at this stage of the season, which is very familiar to us now and called by many as the collapse.
Our season hopes have been ending in February since when? I can't remember exactly.. been a long time we see this every year.

Thank you very much for everything Wenger, but your time is up. I hope he moves up in the club, to a position in the board perhaps. As a manager, I don't believe in him anymore. He's outdated and has lost it.
 
Bayern plays lots of air balls, effective not attractive. I think at Munich it might be guns blazing and praying for a miracle . Arsenal only made dents tonight I think a proper DM to cover the backs were so needed like what Song did for us.
 
Obviously Bayern are better than us, and it's no shame at all that we would've gone out. But the way we played the first half is what disappointed me. That's why I'm pissed off.
 
bebo said:
Bayern plays lots of air balls, effective not attractive. I think at Munich it might be guns blazing and praying for a miracle . Arsenal only made dents tonight I think a proper DM to cover the backs were so needed like what Song did for us.
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I think Bayern plays more attractive than us, bebo. If you're a Bayern fan you actually stay on the edge of your seat expecting a great shot at goal anytime.
With Arsenal I could have fallen asleep tonight, if I wasn't too agitated with Bayern destroying us.

I think this tippy tappy, looking to score goals with tap-ins, is what's not very attractive. I'm sick and tired of this.

Call me old fashioned, but I like seeing attackers letting it rip, I like objectivity and menacing attacking moves. I'm very very very very frustrated with this Arsenal group of players on most performances.
 
I have an enormous amount of respect for Jack Wilshere, he just lives the game, loves the club and his passion is unprecedented among other young players in this day and age.
The lad even cried after tonight's game... :/
 
I'm sure the Arsenal board and Wenger are in love with each other. What the fans are saying really doesn't matter. aka modern football. :P
 
bebo said:
Bayern plays lots of air balls, effective not attractive. I think at Munich it might be guns blazing and praying for a miracle . Arsenal only made dents tonight I think a proper DM to cover the backs were so needed like what Song did for us.
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Not that true. They're the closest team in terms of structure and build-up play to Barca these days.
 
Milanista said:
Judging from the highlights, if Arsenal had a top class keeper, two of those goals could've been avoided.
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Obviously you didn´t see the game. Also bayern have a top class keeper and he fail badly in arsenal goal. A top keeper would have made any difference for arsenal in the game today, neither for their weak season.

It´s easier to blame the goalie and not Wenger that puts Wallcot as a CF? When the team doesn´t make a single shot on goal in the entire first half?
 
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