The Death Of Playing "3 at the back" ?

Plan M

Plan M

Banned
27 September 2007
Manchester United
I remember the classic 3-5-2 formation where a team would play with three centre-back's; was quite popular at one time, especially with the Italian clubs who, in my opinion, played the tactical game to perfection.

What happened to this formation? Most clubs and national team plays four at the back now, with two centre-back's. Or am I wrong? Yes, the game has changed but why has this method been ditched by most teams?

Please, if you know any teams that still use this formation, let us all know!

:))
 
Most of the known "Big" teams in Europe are using the 4-4-2 with 2 wings and 2 Strikers nowadays.
Using 3 defenders against 4 players, in an attack for example, makes you lose field control/coverage and decreases your probability of getting the ball if the opposing team loses possession of it.
Playing with 4 players defending brings stability to the field too, specially if all those players are quick/good passers, fast and able to connect well to the midfield to create opportunities of goal.
Thats the main reason for all teams not risking in playing with 3 players in their defense.
 
I played against a guy on PES 5 a few years back who used a 3-5-2 formation and I couldn't get NEAR the ball - he kept it for 90 minutes. He only scored 2 but I applauded him at the end - it was tactical brilliance.
 
Well you guys want some central american football trivia. Chivas Mexico, only plays a 3-4-3, they have to(chivas fans correct me if im wrong), its part of there football culture, also they refuse to sign anyone who is not mexican, so it might be dead in europe but still alive in the americas.

also my team dc united won a championship in 2004 playing the 3-5-2, they tried it the next year, and it didnt work that well. The coach was Petr Nowak, some of you might remember him from the bundesliga.
 
In PES5 I used to play in 3-3-4 with FC Porto. It was the crazy tactic of Co Adriaanse! And it works! I scored many many goals and kept the ball all the time.
 
Genoa and Lecce generally play with this. Lecce, when they were in Serie A, had something like the 3rd best attack but the worst defense but still eventually got relegated. Genoa score many goals this year, but also concede a lot, but still their options are great as it allows more wing play and attacking options.
 
I am a huge fan of this formation. Liverpool played this a few times last season, and I think we were very good in all those games.

Don't know of many teams who regularly use this though.
 
I remember Roma using the 3-4-3 formation - it seemed to suit them too.
 
Neoexodus said:
Most of the known "Big" teams in Europe are using the 4-4-2 with 2 wings and 2 Strikers nowadays.
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I don't really agree with that, certainly not in England. Man Utd is the only team who plays with two strikers upfront.
Most teams play: 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 nowadays.

The 3-5-2 was very flexible...while in attack it was a 3-5-2, but when the opponent had the ball it became 5-3-2...In Belgium Racing Genk managed to play brilliantly with that formation a couple of years ago...
 
I remember AC Milan playing often with 3-4-3 when Zaccheroni was on the bench, and with that formation we won a scudetto in 1999. But yes, nowadays the majority of teams tend to stick to a classic 4-4-2 or something with 2 centre backs and 2 side backs anyway.

Neoexodus said:
Using 3 defenders against 4 players, in an attack for example, makes you lose field control/coverage and decreases your probability of getting the ball if the opposing team loses possession of it.
Click to expand...
I used to play PES with 3-4-3 some time ago, then I switched to 4-2-3-1 (4-3-2-1 when needed, in tough matches) just for the reason you mentioned.
3-4-3 is great when you have to attack, but it doesn't provide enough coverage in defence especially if the opponet plays a "standard" 4-4-2 or equivalent.
 
gomito#10 said:
. Chivas Mexico, only plays a 3-4-3, they have to(chivas fans correct me if im wrong), its part of there football culture, also they refuse to sign anyone who is not mexican, so it might be dead in europe but still alive in the americas.
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Also need to be linked from Guadalajara, Mexico
 
I remember a few season ago,almost all of the teams in Serie A uses the back 3 formation be it,3-5-2 or the 3-4-3.Even the Italian NT used it.I think players in these formation needs to be strong tactically and needs to be well disciplined enough.Wing backs are deployed with at least one defensive midfielder to cover the back 3.I think Brasil used this tactic in WC2002 to win it.Possesion is a strong essential in this formation while they get breaks and chances through swift counter attacks.
 
Milanista said:
Genoa and Lecce generally play with this. Lecce, when they were in Serie A, had something like the 3rd best attack but the worst defense but still eventually got relegated. Genoa score many goals this year, but also concede a lot, but still their options are great as it allows more wing play and attacking options.
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Denorobob said:
Don't Udinese play 3 at the back this season in a 3-4-3 ?
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Sabac Red said:
Napoli and Sampdoria both use 3-5-2...
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Ste, both Genoa and Lecce are famous for their 4-3-3 (not 3-5-2) ;))
zeman's lecce was the craziest 4-3-3 i ever seen... it was like watching the harlem globetrotters playing football :w00t:
Gasperini (genoa) instead is very loyal to the pure (no modifications) 4-3-3 system.

udinese too use a 4-3-3 formation. they have 4 guys back. dossena and mesto take care of the sides... they're among the most brilliants and interesting "hot prospects" in europe, talking about sidebacks.

napoli and samp instead, they actually play with a 3-5-2 most of the times. but their interpretations of this game system are completely different.
reja (napoli) lets the game flow at the centre, with gargano playing as a mezz'ala (a la gerrard) and hamsik giving support to the fowards.

Mazzarri (sampdoria) instead plays a more "enveloping" football, working a lot on on his mezz'ali (franceschini and del vecchio), especially on the right side, where maggio usually tries to overlap with del vecchio.

palermo too often plays this system.... and our interpretation of the 3-5-2 is different too.
we line up a pure defensive midfielder (migliaccio) and 2 mezz'ali (simplicio and guana, or caserta and jankovic... or bresciano).

so to sum up.... every team interpretate this system its own way, and there are no 2 teams playing with the same 3-5-2 in europe (i just talked about the italian teams u guys mentioned, but also in spain and in france there are some teams who sometimes display this system).

and this because there are too many variables, like the attitude of the central midfielders and of the wing-backs... many poor teams outside italy often display a 3-5-2 just to cover up a 5-3-2 formation, with 3 cbs and 2 sidebacks who play just a couple of meters ahead of the defensive line, with only defensive duties.

infact, unlike what neoexodus wrote, this formation can be extremely effective in defense... coz the 3 players ahead of the goalkeeper are all cbs; they are always close each others (much more than a cb and a sideback, of course) and they can easily close any way to the box.
if the 2 wing backs don't push too much, they can take care of the opponent side players.
if they are supposed to push, instead, they can hold back the opponent side players.
moreover it is possible to add also 2 defensive midfielders, playing behind the midfeld line, keeping 3 mezz'ali upfront, supporting the fowards.
and finally, having 3 cbs, one of them can detach himself from the defensive line, and take place a couple of meters ahead of them (playing as a libero).

so it's not a matter of "field control, stability" or whatever. No team in the world attacks with 4 players moving toward the same spot in the same time, of course. and no team in the world defend with the whole defensive line, as also the more "defensive" 4-4-2s, usually leave more freedom to their sidebacks.

one of the most perfect application of this system was the italian national team at euro 2000. Zoff's 3-5-2 was a fantastic..... and it almost brought us the cup :whistle:

btw guys, it is just me or english football dictionary is extremely poor? i mean, is there a specific term to identify the various kind of side backs or midfielders or fowards???
because, in italian, there are hundreds of different words, wich define the kind of players. in the 3-5-2, for example the attitude of the players (in any role) must be completely different, so we don't use the word "difensore" (cb), terzino (sideback) or centrocampista (midfielder). we use other specific terms (mezz'ala, metodista, tornante, fuidificante, ecc.).
centrocampista (central midfielder) is a gereric, unspecific word, wich might mean everything and nothing at the same time.
i used the term "mezz'ali" to describe the 2 offensive midfielders (who are different from the "advanced midfielders") who plays in a 3-5-2 system (i said "a la gerrard" to make it more clear). is there an english translation of this term?? how would u define a gerrard, a perrotta, a del vecchio?

and what about the sidebacks? are there any other ways to describe the different types of sidebacks?? or it is just "sideback" or "wing back"????
i'm asking this coz sometimes it gets tough for me to describe roles and players in english. i mean, calling gerrard a "central midfielder" would be a blasphemy in italy.
thanks in advance to anybody who will be so kind to reply to my question :))
 
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Are you sure ben?? At the start of the season Genoa played with:

Bega-Santos-Lucarelli, with Konko-Papa Waigo- Juric and MIlanetto in midfield.
 
Milanista said:
Are you sure ben?? At the start of the season Genoa played with:

Bega-Santos-Lucarelli, with Konko-Papa Waigo- Juric and MIlanetto in midfield.
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oups! my bad, i wrote the post too fast and i didn't realise what i wrote wansn't what i meant to write... :-pp
i wanted to wrote...
Ste, both Genoa and Lecce are famous for their 3-4-3 and 4-3-3 (not 3-5-2)
zeman's lecce was the craziest 4-3-3 i ever seen... it was like watching the harlem globetrotters playing football
Gasperini (genoa) instead is very loyal to the pure (no modifications) 3-4-3 system.
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talking about gasperini, i wrote "instead", but then i said he used the same formation zeman used :LOL:

at the beginning of the season gasperini used papa waigo, konko and di vaio as wings, not as midfielders.
but everything else u wrote is true, so i stand corrected :-pp:))


Inconsistent formation, enough said.
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yeah, sure.... if u say so....:whistle:
 
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Of course im sure.
In nowadays football, any mistake in the defense is quickly used to create a chance of goal, using 3 defenders will only increase that error tax, besides if the coach sees a 3 defender formation what will he do? Obviously send more men upfront, so if he uses 3 attackers we will ask the more offensive midfielder to attack more instead of balancing the midfield itself.
Thats just how thing runs these days and playing in such a form is too risky, even with 4 defenders sometimes its difficult to sustain control in an attack and block the opponent from scoring, with only 3 it would be a huge hard pressure in the cbs.
But its good to know people tried it in the past and lead it to victories, what would not happen with todays football.
 
Plan M said:
I remember the classic 3-5-2 formation where a team would play with three centre-back's; was quite popular at one time, especially with the Italian clubs who, in my opinion, played the tactical game to perfection.

What happened to this formation? Most clubs and national team plays four at the back now, with two centre-back's. Or am I wrong? Yes, the game has changed but why has this method been ditched by most teams?

Please, if you know any teams that still use this formation, let us all know!

:))
Click to expand...
Egypt won the african cup of nation using 3 centre back . Morocco went to ANC2004's final using this system as well .
This season in Ligue 1 , Auxerre used a 3 center backs formation after few bad results used that system till recently .
Plan M said:
I played against a guy on PES 5 a few years back who used a 3-5-2 formation and I couldn't get NEAR the ball - he kept it for 90 minutes. He only scored 2 but I applauded him at the end - it was tactical brilliance.
Click to expand...
was it me ? I was allways playing 3-5-2 in pes4 and pes5 and many congratulated me :LOL:
ps : I often used AC Milan .
 
Neoexodus said:
Of course im sure.
In nowadays football, any mistake in the defense is quickly used to create a chance of goal, using 3 defenders will only increase that error tax, besides if the coach sees a 3 defender formation what will he do? Obviously send more men upfront, so if he uses 3 attackers we will ask the more offensive midfielder to attack more instead of balancing the midfield itself.
Thats just how thing runs these days and playing in such a form is too risky, even with 4 defenders sometimes its difficult to sustain control in an attack and block the opponent from scoring, with only 3 it would be a huge hard pressure in the cbs.
But its good to know people tried it in the past and lead it to victories, what would not happen with todays football.
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sorry Neoexodus, but both your posts (the first one and this) are so full of wrong and shallow statements that it would take too much time to correct u properly.
don't get me wrong, anyway. no harm intended... i just think u have no idea of what u're talking about (:SHHH:).... besides, if i got u right, i'm pretty sure u would think the same about me, if u would read my posts... so it doesn't really matter ;))

but there just one thing i can say, without writing a long, boring post about football basics:
But its good to know people tried it in the past and lead it to victories, what would not happen with todays football.
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it's not something that happened in the past. many great coaches around europe display this system today, and they win with this system.
the point is that u don't even know them.... u don't know who they are, and u didn't even see their teams playing.

and btw, they are not "people". they're professionals.... and they know this game much better than me and u (soooo much better than u) :whistle:
 
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pogoss said:
was it me ? I was allways playing 3-5-2 in pes4 and pes5 and many congratulated me :LOL:
ps : I often used AC Milan .
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Haha might have been mate, can't remember! :)

Some great replies by the way lads, real interesting stuff.
 
Milan a few season back experimented, but we lacked depth and the players didn't seem to work too well. I really wanted it to work:

------Shevchenko--Inzaghi----
-------------Kaka------
-------Gattuso-Pirlo-------
Janku-----------------Oddo/Cafu
---Maldini-Nesta-Stam/Kaladze--


Basically Jankulovski, Oddo, Cafu or Serginho would play as very advanced wingbacks with 3 at the back. We only used it in pre-season but then we started getting injuries.

One of the best examples was Milan-Lazio 2-1 in 2005.

Down 1-0 at half time, so Ancelotti threw on Cafu and switched to this modified 3-5-2 formation. We won at the end.
 
lo zio:
1st I lol'd at your comments;
2nd I play soccer for a long time, i will repeat Play and know enough about tactics to say that in reality and actually playing, that formation isn't consistent enough to win a lil cup or something but not a CL or a national league.
3rd Good you didn't write a long ass topic, cous i normally see your name and pass cous you always write too much.
4th If you think your so good as you say so, then name a team that is winning, playing good football and in a good place in their league atm using that formation, don't want to know about past results only actual and present results.
 
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