Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Hey guys, so this could be a bit of a long one! I honestly haven't played much of PES 2021 as I grew sick and tired of modern PES gameplay just over a year ago and have been mainly playing older titles of both FIFA and PES. I've played enough however, to know what I'm dealing with!
We all know that PES on the Fox engine has become increasingly frustrating based on its rigid tactical system. Team shape is wayyyy too wide, as soon as you lose possession most teams run back into their own half (making gameplay very one dimensional), passing lanes aren't blocked off properly and player behaviour is too focused on all the tactical commands and not on where the ball is. I've tried everything I can think of and everything other people have suggested to try and get more of a midfield into modern PES - none have given me the experience I’m after.
Today however, I stumbled across a system which in my tests seem to create a much more realistic shape and midfield engagement. I found this by working with what I know of this rigid tactical system, allowing players to try and occupy the correct spaces on the field. It might not make logical sense when you see the tactical screen but from what I've played so far it has helped.
For example, logically you'd think you need to play with a left back and a right back, but if you just play with 4 CBs they still hold their shape in a back 4, but the advantage is they just play more narrow instead of staying in their positional 'zones' (which are far too wide in my opinion). The trick is knowing and using these 'zones' and player roles, as they become important when you want them to do something in particular.
Overall there's a few things to consider about these suggestions:
Midfield: Change all your midfielders to CMs. Bring your CMs down as low as possible so they're closer to your defence. However, you still want two midfield lines so if you originally had an AM keep him a little higher but now as a CM.
Attack: Bring your CF as low as possible and make them a SS. If you have wingers bring them down into midfield and make them CMs (in line with your higher midfield line)
2. Turn on fluid formations: I've not typically liked using fluid formations, however for this system it works. The main focus on changes here are based around your wide players on the pitch. They are key to creating a realistic shape.
- In Possession: The only adjustment to make here is to move your left and right backs just wide enough so you can change their role from CB to LB/RB. I also like to move my whole defensive line down a little here as well. The reasoning for making them LB and RB only in possession is it gets them further up the pitch and creates a more realistic shape instead of just keeping them in a narrow 4 when you have the ball. If you want that to be more defensive then don't do this step.
- Out of Possession: Here you want to move your striker as high as possible and back to CF. Your wingers should be moved so they are just wide enough to become LM and RM and as high as possible before they become wingers again. If you have an AM bring him as high as possible. Your CMs should be brought up a touch, to the half way line or so and your defence should consist of 4 CBs again.
3. Instructions:
- Attacking: Possession. You can keep the rest of the attacking instructions as they were for each team (although I think 'Maintain Formation' works best).
- Defensive: Frontline pressure / Aggressive. Defensive line and compactness should be all the way to 10.
4. Advanced instructions: Turn them all off for attacking and for defensive make both 'Wingback'.
Option: Wingback+Gegenpress is an option as well. It's more an option to implement in certain games or at certain times. It can help create more resistance throughout the midfield and it keeps the team out of possession higher up the pitch. Combined with the compactness from the rest of the adjustments, it works well for the most part - however, it can leave the defence exposed as the CMs can overcommit and be out of position, leaving a ball to the striker open. Overall it's good to have some tactical flexibility as well with these adjustments.
The reasoning for this is to have your wide players high up the pitch when they lose the ball so they're able to keep pressure on without retreating, but the wingback instruction also makes them come back on defence to get behind the ball as well. If you just have them low in positioning then they always come back and if you just have them high, they never come back and you can bypass them easily. This is a fairly good middle ground.
5. Man Marking: For both teams, you want your wingers to man mark the opposition LB and your RB respectively. This further ensures they get back behind the ball when they're needed.
Option: An additional option for man marking is to mark the opposition wingers with your LB and RB. This gets the LB and RB more advanced off the ball and closer to the wingers so they're not in so much space. This can help to create even more tightness throughout the midfield. It does leave more space in behind and often results in the wingers making more runs into that space (which are tracked though so it's not necessarily a bad thing, just a variation). Generally, the back 4 still keep a fairly good shape with this marking, but they're not quite as flat as without. Again, a good option to have for tactical flexibility.
6. Auto Offside Trap On: This helps defenders to hold their line and prevents them from getting dragged out of shape too often when an attacker makes a run forward.
Finally, I know we can’t control the levels for opposition, but I find in general it all works better on Red.
Note: If you're playing with different formations then just apply the same type of thinking to each particular formation. One note - If you have a flat 3 midfield for example, you might want to bring 1 of the 3 higher up the pitch when 'Out of Possession' only and make them an AM (only to avoid them falling into a deep 3 and reducing that midfield resistance). This helps to create an additional midfield layer which I think is important off the ball.
Done! I hope it works for you guys, any feedback is welcome as we might be able to tweak if necessary.
....wow that was way too much writing about a football game
We all know that PES on the Fox engine has become increasingly frustrating based on its rigid tactical system. Team shape is wayyyy too wide, as soon as you lose possession most teams run back into their own half (making gameplay very one dimensional), passing lanes aren't blocked off properly and player behaviour is too focused on all the tactical commands and not on where the ball is. I've tried everything I can think of and everything other people have suggested to try and get more of a midfield into modern PES - none have given me the experience I’m after.
Today however, I stumbled across a system which in my tests seem to create a much more realistic shape and midfield engagement. I found this by working with what I know of this rigid tactical system, allowing players to try and occupy the correct spaces on the field. It might not make logical sense when you see the tactical screen but from what I've played so far it has helped.
For example, logically you'd think you need to play with a left back and a right back, but if you just play with 4 CBs they still hold their shape in a back 4, but the advantage is they just play more narrow instead of staying in their positional 'zones' (which are far too wide in my opinion). The trick is knowing and using these 'zones' and player roles, as they become important when you want them to do something in particular.
Overall there's a few things to consider about these suggestions:
- It's not perfect - it still is Fox Engine PES! The midfield can still back off a little too much when you lose the ball (sometimes more than others), but overall it's an improvement.
- Passing lanes aren't magically blocked, but it's a definite improvement and distances are much better. There's a greater chance of them being blocked more often based on the areas of the pitch each player is occupying.
- No idea how this plays in Master League - this isn't a post about scripting etc.
- No idea how this plays with any gameplay mod.
Anyway, onto the system - It's definitely a bit of mucking around if you want to use it, and you'll need to use it for both teams before every match and you'll need to make all of the changes, but for me if it can establish a stronger base then it's worth it - and I think it does.
What you should see is the overall base positioning of a team is much better and more realistic. The distances are a lot closer and this results in players covering space much better. You should see more resistance throughout the pitch, yet also players getting behind the ball. The compactness makes it harder to play through, even if the base position is higher than default (which it absolutely should be). I've also found the CPU is more likely to play the ball around a bit more. Playing on manual, I'm seeing possession stats much more even and sometimes even in the CPU's favour, which I've never experienced before.
1. Narrow the space - We need the players much closer together. For now, forget about player roles and only focus on the distance between the players.
Midfield: Change all your midfielders to CMs. Bring your CMs down as low as possible so they're closer to your defence. However, you still want two midfield lines so if you originally had an AM keep him a little higher but now as a CM.
Attack: Bring your CF as low as possible and make them a SS. If you have wingers bring them down into midfield and make them CMs (in line with your higher midfield line)
2. Turn on fluid formations: I've not typically liked using fluid formations, however for this system it works. The main focus on changes here are based around your wide players on the pitch. They are key to creating a realistic shape.
- In Possession: The only adjustment to make here is to move your left and right backs just wide enough so you can change their role from CB to LB/RB. I also like to move my whole defensive line down a little here as well. The reasoning for making them LB and RB only in possession is it gets them further up the pitch and creates a more realistic shape instead of just keeping them in a narrow 4 when you have the ball. If you want that to be more defensive then don't do this step.
- Out of Possession: Here you want to move your striker as high as possible and back to CF. Your wingers should be moved so they are just wide enough to become LM and RM and as high as possible before they become wingers again. If you have an AM bring him as high as possible. Your CMs should be brought up a touch, to the half way line or so and your defence should consist of 4 CBs again.
3. Instructions:
- Attacking: Possession. You can keep the rest of the attacking instructions as they were for each team (although I think 'Maintain Formation' works best).
- Defensive: Frontline pressure / Aggressive. Defensive line and compactness should be all the way to 10.
4. Advanced instructions: Turn them all off for attacking and for defensive make both 'Wingback'.
Option: Wingback+Gegenpress is an option as well. It's more an option to implement in certain games or at certain times. It can help create more resistance throughout the midfield and it keeps the team out of possession higher up the pitch. Combined with the compactness from the rest of the adjustments, it works well for the most part - however, it can leave the defence exposed as the CMs can overcommit and be out of position, leaving a ball to the striker open. Overall it's good to have some tactical flexibility as well with these adjustments.
The reasoning for this is to have your wide players high up the pitch when they lose the ball so they're able to keep pressure on without retreating, but the wingback instruction also makes them come back on defence to get behind the ball as well. If you just have them low in positioning then they always come back and if you just have them high, they never come back and you can bypass them easily. This is a fairly good middle ground.
5. Man Marking: For both teams, you want your wingers to man mark the opposition LB and your RB respectively. This further ensures they get back behind the ball when they're needed.
Option: An additional option for man marking is to mark the opposition wingers with your LB and RB. This gets the LB and RB more advanced off the ball and closer to the wingers so they're not in so much space. This can help to create even more tightness throughout the midfield. It does leave more space in behind and often results in the wingers making more runs into that space (which are tracked though so it's not necessarily a bad thing, just a variation). Generally, the back 4 still keep a fairly good shape with this marking, but they're not quite as flat as without. Again, a good option to have for tactical flexibility.
6. Auto Offside Trap On: This helps defenders to hold their line and prevents them from getting dragged out of shape too often when an attacker makes a run forward.
Finally, I know we can’t control the levels for opposition, but I find in general it all works better on Red.
Note: If you're playing with different formations then just apply the same type of thinking to each particular formation. One note - If you have a flat 3 midfield for example, you might want to bring 1 of the 3 higher up the pitch when 'Out of Possession' only and make them an AM (only to avoid them falling into a deep 3 and reducing that midfield resistance). This helps to create an additional midfield layer which I think is important off the ball.
Done! I hope it works for you guys, any feedback is welcome as we might be able to tweak if necessary.
....wow that was way too much writing about a football game
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