Scolari sacked by Chelsea

Kaiser

Kaiser

PES Enthusiast
3 July 2003
Borusse
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/7879638.stm[/URL]

Whats your thoughts guys?

My opinion is that Chelsea lost alot of what made them successful when he was appointed, their power and pace but i think Scolari's tactics blew teams away early because of the all out attack almost and when teams shut up shop he had no plan b.

I suppose the evidence was the way he coached Portugal and the way teams eliminated them in major tournaments.

In defence of Avram Grant he did not change wat was working fine in the way Chelsea played, not alot of fans but they could grind out wins.

So the question to Abramovich is playing pretty better for you though it does not always gaurantee success or would you go back to grinding out results getting prizes and putting money from succesful competitions back into your coffers?
 
Chelsea lost it all when they got rid of Mourinho. He had a winning mentality and that arrogance that said, don't even dare to attack us let alone beat us. They were invincible when Mourinho was there and it's now showing since they got rid of him they are doing poorly by the high standards he set. Bring him back I say. The Italian media don't really get his sense of humour and he wants to return to the Premiership at some stage.
 
Scolaris record at Chelsea
Played 36
Won 20
Lost 11
Drawn 6

You can see with such a terrible record why they got rid of him ;)
 
Tim7 said:
Chelsea lost it all when they got rid of Mourinho. He had a winning mentality and that arrogance that said, don't even dare to attack us let alone beat us. They were invincible when Mourinho was there and it's now showing since they got rid of him they are doing poorly by the high standards he set. Bring him back I say. The Italian media don't really get his sense of humour and he wants to return to the Premiership at some stage.
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but why would he return to chelsea after the way they treated him and kicked him out of the club that he himself made as winners?
 
As far as I remember Scolari took time to success in all clubs/nations he managed.

It takes time to make the "family" he likes and players understand the spirit.

It was an early decision in my opinion.

Those millionaires should know you can't build greatness in the football world in such a short period. Chelsea still have a long way to go.
 
Ray "butch" Wilkins taking training this morning lol

28rjzub.jpg
 
Mourinho has been rubbish with Inter this season, so I'd be surprised if he enjoys the same success with Chelsea as he did before if he returns. I'm putting my money on Mancini becoming the new boss.
 
Tim7 said:
Chelsea lost it all when they got rid of Mourinho. He had a winning mentality and that arrogance that said, don't even dare to attack us let alone beat us. They were invincible when Mourinho was there and it's now showing since they got rid of him they are doing poorly by the high standards he set. Bring him back I say. The Italian media don't really get his sense of humour and he wants to return to the Premiership at some stage.
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Read the Serie A thread and you'llknow that Mourinho is nothing special.
Serie A is still the university of tactics and he's pretty average there.
He was (moderately) succesfull in England because tactically English football is miles behind....

Chelsea need young hungry players, Deco was bought 3 years too late...
 
Tim7 said:
The Italian media don't really get his sense of humour and he wants to return to the Premiership at some stage.
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actually his sense of humour is one of the very few things italian media like about mourinho.... what they question (and mourinho gave them many reason to do it) is his quality as a football coach.

anyhow i'm absolutely sure in a few years he'll be back in premiership. most of the people in uk consider him as a great coach and that's the most important thing for his huge ego.
actually if he would fail to win the scudetto this season (wich is not really likely to happen however), i wouldn't be surprised if he would be back in england already next season.


anybody knows scolari's contract details? how long was his contract? and wich was his wage? :))
 
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Get Avram Grant back. The guy worked a minor miracle at Chelsea. The only reason they didn't win the league least season was because of Jose.
 
"Nothing surprises me in football, but I'm shocked and suprised at the decision" - Bobby Robson , a few years back on an ITV show.

The Billionaires are ruining the game for pete's sake. If they'd only given Fergie seven months where would Man utd be now?

Pah, I like Scolari and wish him well. At least his payoff will be great.
 
This was a super early decision. Scolari is a great coach, but there is oddly ever any instant success in football. Scolari saw that his wide play was weak, thus got Quaresma on loan and see how he can help. But sadly, i don't think Scolari even got to help Quaresma get settled yet...

I feel sorry for Scolari and just wish him the best....
 
Mourinho got out at the right time and also realised the money was drying up, so left. As he couldn't rebuild his team by spending squillions like he did before.

I think Avram did a good job.

Scolari should never have been sacked and they will regret it.
 
lo zio said:
actually his sense of humour is one of the very few things italian media like about mourinho.... what they question (and mourinho gave them many reason to do it) is his quality as a football coach.

anyhow i'm absolutely sure in a few years he'll be back in premiership. most of the people in uk consider him as a great coach and that's the most important thing for his huge ego.
actually if he would fail to win the scudetto this season (wich is not really likely to happen however), i wouldn't be surprised if he would be back in england already next season.


anybody knows scolari's contract details? how long was his contract? and wich was his wage? :))
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Scolari had a 3 year deal, so he'll receive 17M €...so looks like it pays best to suck as a manager than being good ;)

About Mourinho...I don't like him, but still, if he wins the Scudetto, Coppa d Italia and the Champions I want to see if people will say the same. Mourinho was never known to make his teams playing good football... but anyway, who plays good football nowadays?

And I am sorry but that criticism about his tactical abilities are quite interesting...I mean, he won UEFA cup with Porto (totally humilliation to Lazio 4-1, but it could have been 7-1), Champions League with Porto, huge sucess in England...so, he can't be that bad.
I think Inter is the wrong club for him for other reasons...
 
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#71 said:
Scolari had a 3 year deal, so he'll receive 17M €...so looks like it pays best to suck as a manager than being good ;)
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did u have any doubts about that? ;)

as for the mourinho point, i guess i already made myself pretty clear, so there's no point in replying what i already said in another thread..... nontheless....

my girlfriend thinks i'm a hell of a poker player coz i often beat her friends (who are actually pretty good).
the truth is i'm crap at poker. the only reason why i win is because i have a ridiculous, boundless luck... i just happen to have the best hand of the lot (almost) on a regular basis. her friends can clearely see i'm no good.... and even i know the game enough to realise that they're way better players than me... but she knows nothing about poker. and when u don't know the game the only way to judge a player is from the results.

mourinho always had "the best hand" in his (short) carreer. and that porto team, that was a hell of a "hand" aswell (despite what many people think).
even today he has the best "hand" in italy. inter is the favourite for the scudetto... but i won't change my mind about his coaching skills, just coz he won having the best cards...... exactly as i won't change my mind about scolari despite his unlucky british experience.

thanks for the info about felipao's wage mate :))
 
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lo zio said:
did u have any doubts about that? ;)

as for the mourinho point, i guess i already made myself pretty clear, so there's no point in replying what i already said in another thread..... nontheless....

my girlfriend thinks i'm a hell of a poker player coz i often beat her friends (who are actually pretty good).
the truth is i'm crap at poker. the only reason why i win is because i have a ridiculous, boundless luck... i just happen to have the best hand of the lot (almost) on a regular basis. her friends can clearely see i'm no good.... and even i know the game enough to realise that they're way better players than me... but she knows nothing about poker. and when u don't know the game the only way to judge a player is from the results.

mourinho always had "the best hand" in his (short) carreer. and that porto team, that was a hell of a "hand" aswell (despite what many people think).
even today he has the best "hand" in italy. inter is the favourite for the scudetto... but i won't change my mind about his coaching skills, just coz he won having the best cards...... exactly as i won't change my mind about scolari despite his unlucky british experience.

thanks for the info about felipao's wage mate :))
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Sorry, I didn't read your post about Mourinho, I'll have a look ;)

I understand what you're saying but still.. I admit Mourinho was very lucky on key moments of his career, but there's something that nobody can't take it from him (even tho Porto is always helped by referees and it was proven that Porto was offering prostitutes to refs at that time), he made that Porto team. Those players that you say they're good now, were União de Leiria players. Nuno Valente, Maciel and Derlei played for Leiria, Maniche has spent all season before that without playing, Helder Postiga was a youth player that never settled after Mourinho, Paulo Ferreira was playing for Setubal, Carlos Alberto did nothing after Mourinho, Ricardo Carvalho had his first great season with him... I mean, he spent 2 and a half years in Porto and build a team very quickly.

About Chelsea..yeah, he picked the right club, but if you see, Ranieri, Grant..none of them could win it, also with great players..And Scolari was going the same way...Having great players doesn't mean it's easy to win...specially for a team whose last league title was 50 years ago. So I give him credit, despite having a great team, like he has now.
We'll see how he adapts to Italy, it's still to early to judge, I think. I agree that Premier League is not so strong (despite being the best one, in my opinion) but I don't consider the portuguese league easy. Not for coaches, not for players.

Scolari isn't that good, believe me. He's all about motivation..just very little more than that. Portugal qualified to last EC without winning one single game against Serbia, Finland and Poland (all serious opposition) for example.
 
lo zio said:
mourinho always had "the best hand" in his (short) carreer. and that porto team, that was a hell of a "hand" aswell (despite what many people think).
even today he has the best "hand" in italy. inter is the favourite for the scudetto... but i won't change my mind about his coaching skills, just coz he won having the best cards...... exactly as i won't change my mind about scolari despite his unlucky british experience.
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I think manage "the best hand" is a tough job, not only in poker but in football too, in poker with the best hand you need to take as much money as possible :P

and in our beloved football is not easy to manage huge egos, Scolari use the "lets all be a family" strategy and that took time in all big clubs he manage here in Brazil,
but that is not my point, my point is that coaching this huge clubs managing the stars is as important as the tactics stuff, and Mourinho seems to have that skill, just see the effect it made when he leaved Chelsea, a lot of egos complaining and wanting to follow him.
 
u guys (#71 and sauce) made very good points. i definitely agree with u. there's no thing such an easy task for a football coach. the kind of challenges u have to face might be different, according to the type of team u have to lead. but definitely coaching a top club is not easy.

and definitely coaching big stars requires some special skills, in terms of men managing and also lots of charisma.
and i'm absolutely sure mourinho has those features. i really admire the way he's handling the balotelli and the adriano situations, for instance.

infact i don't think mourinho is a poor manager. my point is, he's not top class either..... actually he's nowhere near top class standards (assuming as a top class benchmark the likes of ferguson, lippi, capello, hiddink, spalletti, ancelotti).
coz when u label a coach as top class, u're implying he has the whole package: men management, charisma, tactical education, the ability to read, interpretate and anticipate the flow of the game (and mind u, this is a different thing from tactical education, as u can be a tactics bible, and yet not being able to adjust your team setup during the game, according to what is going on the pitch), the ability to build a team, to handle the pressure, etc.....

palermo's former coach (guidolin) is a genius, talking about tactical knowledge and tactical reading ability.... in this area guidolin is on par with lippi. the thing is in the other areas he's just not good enough. and that's why he'll never be a top class coach.
the same goes for mourinho. he's pretty much the opposite of guidolin. jose is a master in all those areas where guidolin is poor.... and is poor in those areas where guidolin is a master.

it's not really easy to spot his weaknesses though, as he's very very clever and always choosed those teams which suited his specs.
mourinho's chelsea and mourinho's inter have something very special in common. both teams have a "spine" formed by players with an amazing tactical imprint. terry-carvalho-makelele-lampard... samuel-vieira-cambiasso-stankovic. theese players are great professionals with a fantastic ability in reading the game. when the team his loosing the "grip" on the match, u don't even have to tell them, as they realise it by themselves.... and they also know what they're supposed to do..... this kind of "on the pitch-coaches assistants" are an amazing asset for every coach, as they make a coach's job much easier.

take roma or arsenal, for instance. both nice teams, with some high quality players, which can display some fantastic football (when they're on the right mood).
the thing is u can easily tell those teams could easily fall apart without their coaches, as they both lack of those kind of players who can guide and lead the team from the pitch (roma at least has de rossi, but having just 1 player with this abilities and charisma isn't enough.... to change the attitude of the team during a bad game, u need 2, 3 of theese players altogether).

and another evidence of the importance of theese kind of players is that when mourinho left chelsea, the team's performances weren't really effected at all.
sure many of em expressed their disappointment for mourinho's departure, but as a matter of fact, the team had a great 2nd half of the season, almost won the premier league, and reached the champions league final..... not bad for a team coach by an "average one" like mister grant.
on this topic #71, i feel ranieri's and grant's merits are really underestimated. as a matter of fact ranieri was the one who built chelsea's real spine: terry-makelele-lampard-drogba (even though he wasn't able to coach him, it was ranieri the one who asked drogba to abramovich). mourinho did an amazing job in working on ranieri's foundations, but ranieri's work must be taken into account, talking about the construction of that team. i'm actually almost sure that, if ranieri would have been given the time, he would have won what mourinho won.... and anyhow i don't rate ranieri as a top class manager aswell.
and as for mr. grant, i guess chelsea's performance in the second half of last season speak for themselves.

in italy we usually say that theese kind of teams almost don't need any coach at all, as they have so many coach-on the-pitch, they could even do without a real coach.
that's an exageration of course, but still gives the idea.
can u imagine what would happen if wenger or spalletti would leave the club in the middle of the season? do u think the players would have the same reaction chelsea players had?

so credit to jose for his qualities, but let's not get blinded by his results, or by his coolness. to deserve the top class label, u must be on par with those monsters i mentioned before.... and mourinho just isn't, as he proved almost every week in italy.

and mind u, this has nothing to do with adaptation issues. coz when u commit the mistakes he did, when u say those things he said during the interviews, u're just proving u don't know some of the aspects of the game enough.... there's no other explanation.
and mourinho himself admitted it every time he gave credit to the opponent team coach in the last few months (and this already happened several times).
almost every week (even when inter won, like in the siena game) he lost the matchup against his antagonist coach.

and that's another reason why i can easily see him moving back to england. in uk the coaches don't change their tactical display to suit their opponents line ups, the journalists aren't able to spot his flaws, and the fans consider him as a genius for his "mentality", his silverware, his winning streaks and other bullshits like theese ones. to put it simple the epl is the perfect habitat for the special one :))

here in italy the standards (talking about coaches) are just too high for him, and everybody can see mourinho for what he really is; a decent coach, with some top class-like abilities, but also some little flaws... and some huge weaknesses.
mind u, it's not like we don't like him. personally i adore his attitude, his character, and i appreciate his qualities..... but i can also see his weaknesses, exactly as i can see guidolin's weaknesses.

i just realise that speaking about mourinho in a scolari thread is a monumental off topic, so sorry about that..... but it wasn't me the one who started it. :P
 
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lo zio said:
i just realise that speaking about mourinho in a scolari thread is a monumental off topic, so sorry about that..... but it wasn't me the one who started it. :P
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That was a good off-topic, no it was a great off-topic :P

Very good post you made, good to learn about the Italian standards.

There is a Brasil x Italia game now, but I don't really care about national football.
now THAT was an off-topic
 
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