PES 2022 - Discussion Thread - The Pitch Is Ours (PS5/XSX/PC)

darkoj2007

Championship
2 November 2009
Skopje, Macedonia
Man Utd
For all romantics/positive outlook guys in here,what signs have you seen to make you believe it's going to be a good Pes 2022?
And i should clarify,not being an ass,just want to know what you think,based on previous games.
In the opposite, we don't know anything about Pes 2022. What could tell us that game will be bad?
I will keep my expectations low but surely expect good game which in the end could dissapoint me of course.
Do I expect 100% simulation of football? No one will deliver that to us. I just want much less scripting and bollocks in the game,.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
In the opposite, we don't know anything about Pes 2022. What could tell us that game will be bad?
I will keep my expectations low but surely expect good game which in the end could dissapoint me of course.
Do I expect 100% simulation of football? No one will deliver that to us. I just want much less scripting and bollocks in the game,.
And Scripting/bollocks has increased with every new game IMO.
I think it was manageable around 17,and has increased since.
I'm basing my scepticism on how this game has evolved game play wise,and to me it hasn't better and better.
And by gameplay I mean ML
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I’ll take the bait.

I’m excited for the new engine big time.
I quite enjoy 21. I play offline now and again. A bit of Online divisions and team play. These can all be reasonably fun, The latter being my favourite with a decent group.
But as far as I’m concerned, when you play exhibition match the game is glorious. I really like the way the devs try to replicate the game of football.
I always have.
It’s why I’m here writing this message haha
But it ends there for me this year. In exhibition mode. And every other mode feels a little bit different due to team spirit and other handicapping. Call it what you want. There’s something shady going on under the hood. Which we’ve all experienced at some point or another.

Take THAT out, and 21 would be one of the greatest for me. But every single mode on superstar is a slog. A drag. A tiring, energy draining, enthusiasm battering drag. And two or 3 games into my 18th master league restart of the season and I’m done. Back in the day PES = MASTER LEAGUE but I find it unplayable these days. So sad.

But exhibition, man.

Whatever is hard coded or built or written or whatever into that mode is absolutely great. It just plays so smooth and responsive and always feels fair to me. And thus the football you can play is so rewarding. But it’s a friendly at the end of the day 😴

For instance, I just played some France v Germany getting in the mood. Germany play quite a high line. I oberhit a manual pass into the channel and mbappe, I shit you not, made up 10 yards in the foot race with the defender AND I got around him AND got the ball and went on to score. I know for a fact in master league that’s just not happening.

I digress.

Anyway, if they replicate the way the football is currently played, when it’s fair and smooth, and continue to perfect the weight of passing etc and improve on the ai, I really do trust them to make a decent football game.

I’m one of the people that loved the direction of 14 for instance. And that was buggy as hell and awful in places but It still had that PES 'feel'. They’ve tried new things here and there but IMO they seem to have a philosophy about passing and momentum and inertia and weight that they’ve always had in every iteration.
Maybe it’s the way I play. Over passing. And switching and attempting to beat the man on the wing as often as possible. I find these things fun in the game and they’re replicated so gorgeously at times.
I genuinely do trust them.
Lock me up 😂
Good write up mate.
I've always considered myself a Pes player,even though I don't play it anymore (modern games)
I stopped playing ML with 19,and started to play league mode on 19,and it played pretty damn good.
But then on 20,even the league mode was rubbish,scripted and clunky,I get that ML has that since it's TS in it,and I gave up!

Both exhibition and League mode has played very very well in the past,but 20 screwed that up,and I feel they have a long way to go to get a decent game again.
With that said,in my opinion and on ML.
Appreciate your input buddy,well written.
 

Buzzy

Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
14 December 2006
Cyberspace
Liverpool
The golden era of PES!
Thankfully in most ways it was, but not all.

Could you imagine this stuff online nowadays or even modded, centre backs could be t-rex's, Triceratops could be centre backs, and wingers could be

Pterodactyl's ect. :P Back in the day though, after the novelty of one game, i never bothered again.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Thankfully in most ways it was, but not all.

Could you imagine this stuff online nowadays or even modded, centre backs could be t-rex's, Triceratops could be centre backs, and wingers could be

Pterodactyl's ect. :P Back in the day though, after the novelty of one game, i never bothered again.
T-Rex away....fucking love it!
 

Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
I’ll take the bait.

I’m excited for the new engine big time.
I quite enjoy 21. I play offline now and again. A bit of Online divisions and team play. These can all be reasonably fun, The latter being my favourite with a decent group.
But as far as I’m concerned, when you play exhibition match the game is glorious. I really like the way the devs try to replicate the game of football.
I always have.
It’s why I’m here writing this message haha
But it ends there for me this year. In exhibition mode. And every other mode feels a little bit different due to team spirit and other handicapping. Call it what you want. There’s something shady going on under the hood. Which we’ve all experienced at some point or another.

Take THAT out, and 21 would be one of the greatest for me. But every single mode on superstar is a slog. A drag. A tiring, energy draining, enthusiasm battering drag. And two or 3 games into my 18th master league restart of the season and I’m done. Back in the day PES = MASTER LEAGUE but I find it unplayable these days. So sad.

But exhibition, man.

Whatever is hard coded or built or written or whatever into that mode is absolutely great. It just plays so smooth and responsive and always feels fair to me. And thus the football you can play is so rewarding. But it’s a friendly at the end of the day 😴

For instance, I just played some France v Germany getting in the mood. Germany play quite a high line. I oberhit a manual pass into the channel and mbappe, I shit you not, made up 10 yards in the foot race with the defender AND I got around him AND got the ball and went on to score. I know for a fact in master league that’s just not happening.

I digress.

Anyway, if they replicate the way the football is currently played, when it’s fair and smooth, and continue to perfect the weight of passing etc and improve on the ai, I really do trust them to make a decent football game.

I’m one of the people that loved the direction of 14 for instance. And that was buggy as hell and awful in places but It still had that PES 'feel'. They’ve tried new things here and there but IMO they seem to have a philosophy about passing and momentum and inertia and weight that they’ve always had in every iteration.
Maybe it’s the way I play. Over passing. And switching and attempting to beat the man on the wing as often as possible. I find these things fun in the game and they’re replicated so gorgeously at times.
I genuinely do trust them.
Lock me up 😂

Never understood why there needed to be two different mechanics/logics, one for exhibition mode and one for ML and why they don‘t just port the exhibition code over to the other modes and scrap Team Spirit and Adaptive AI which have ruined ML for me in the last years.
 

its999maggle

Custom Title:
24 February 2018
Mars
Borussia Dortmund
Never understood why there needed to be two different mechanics/logics, one for exhibition mode and one for ML and why they don‘t just port the exhibition code over to the other modes and scrap Team Spirit and Adaptive AI which have ruined ML for me in the last years.
I personally think Adaptive AI and team spirit is a good concept. Just needs to be tweaked further. You're from Germany, you should know how Dortmund plays post scoring. That's team spirit and adaptive ai for it:P
 

normazimuth

League 1
18 May 2013
Never understood why there needed to be two different mechanics/logics, one for exhibition mode and one for ML and why they don‘t just port the exhibition code over to the other modes and scrap Team Spirit and Adaptive AI which have ruined ML for me in the last years.

Or at least gives us the option to turn off team spirit.

We all get why it's there - you're new to the club and are supposed to be building a team from scratch, so they want you to have to struggle to build a team, both in terms of getting new talent in, but also developing that team spirit and understanding that should make the team gel, and until you get there, they're going to make it hard for you. It's supposed to get you immersed but the reality is we can clearly see it's just a crude cheating and handicapping system that plays out terribly on pitch, ruining the enjoyment for many of us.

For those who wants this layer called team spirit, let them have it, leave it in. But there are now so many players that recognise that it is one of the biggest problems in this game. It's a thick layer of konami scripting that smothers all of the good gameplay features, and many of us know it, so let us turn it off.
 

DevPlays

Mr.Perfect
11 January 2021
Kerala, India
Manchester United
Or at least gives us the option to turn off team spirit.

We all get why it's there - you're new to the club and are supposed to be building a team from scratch, so they want you to have to struggle to build a team, both in terms of getting new talent in, but also developing that team spirit and understanding that should make the team gel, and until you get there, they're going to make it hard for you. It's supposed to get you immersed but the reality is we can clearly see it's just a crude cheating and handicapping system that plays out terribly on pitch, ruining the enjoyment for many of us.

For those who wants this layer called team spirit, let them have it, leave it in. But there are now so many players that recognise that it is one of the biggest problems in this game. It's a thick layer of konami scripting that smothers all of the good gameplay features, and many of us know it, so let us turn it off.
I agree with you mate. Master League without scripting will be a huge fun to play with.
 

Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
I personally think Adaptive AI and team spirit is a good concept. Just needs to be tweaked further. You're from Germany, you should know how Dortmund plays post scoring. That's team spirit and adaptive ai for it:P

For the longest part of the past season Dortmund didn‘t play like Dortmund and only in the later stages did they develop anything like a TS. Reversely Bayern had with Flick a relatively new coach, never really changed their tactics throughout the season and clobbered Schalke 8-0 early on, I daresay nigh on impossible in your first ML campaign with Bayern and anywhere above „regular“ difficulty.

That’s the whole point, that such nuances and fluctuations in team/player performances are much better reflected in exhibition mode where the stats, tactics and (random) daily forms are not mired by two obscure values, whose influence is totally intransparent but omnipresent and sooner or later leads to every COM team giving you the exact same challenge.
 

its999maggle

Custom Title:
24 February 2018
Mars
Borussia Dortmund
For the longest part of the past season Dortmund didn‘t play like Dortmund and only in the later stages did they develop anything like a TS. Reversely Bayern had with Flick a relatively new coach, never really changed their tactics throughout the season and clobbered Schalke 8-0 early on, I daresay nigh on impossible in your first ML campaign with Bayern and anywhere above „regular“ difficulty.

That’s the whole point, that such nuances and fluctuations in team/player performances are much better reflected in exhibition mode where the stats, tactics and (random) daily forms are not mired by two obscure values, whose influence is totally intransparent but omnipresent and sooner or later leads to every COM team giving you the exact same challenge.
That's why I'm saying it's something that should be tweaked. It's not a bad concept, but it's not perfect either. It's far from good in its current state.
 

Danny Henry

We are a football tribe.
16 September 2013
I never liked this TS and Team Identity. I remember PES 13, Real Madrid always played long ball to the wings. It was predictable and repetitive.
I say, keep things simple. Each team will play by its formation, tactics and stats, changing the tactics throughout the match.

PS: it would be a dream if a player on your team was having good rates in the tornament, and the commentator mention it at the beginning of the match and the CPU come to the match to mark him tight.
 
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janguv

League 1
2 November 2016
For all romantics/positive outlook guys in here,what signs have you seen to make you believe it's going to be a good Pes 2022?
And i should clarify,not being an ass,just want to know what you think,based on previous games.
I'd say I'm probably someway between romantic/pessimistic. I think we're going to get a better game than 2020/21, by which I mean less buggy and with fewer on-pitch contradictions. But I think the smoother, cleaner result will be directed in favour of their gameplay ambitions: a game fit for esports, with exciting moments. So, on that score, I'm not confident various AI issues will be sorted – e.g., that we might finally have a midfield again.

But you asked for optimism! So.. I'll say this.

I don't think this applies specifically to the next PES game, but to future footie games in general – surely dev teams at some point will start to use neural networks to determine team shape and defending/attacking habits in a range of circumstances. They can potentially feed in the data of thousands of games for the neural networks to output realistic formations and changes on the pitch. That could be quite an exciting thing. On the other hand, it could make the actual coding of the AI something of a "black box", and difficult to tweak. (I'm not a dev or coder, so no idea how easy this would be.)

Another thing I am reasonably excited about is the new engine: it is likely to give them a much greater time budget to focus on whatever other development goals they have. That might mean more time spent making the game play in a way I don't like, but I think it's reasonable also to expect it to be less buggy as a result. And I am hoping that designing certain elements afresh with the engine tools will mean they're not plastering layers on top of buggy layers, keeping around particular "legacy glitches" year after year.

Another thing: new consoles. I really don't know what to expect in terms of the UX going forward – Konami have been so bad at it for so long, I am a bit scared it will be more of the same (e.g. making you confirm through five separate successive screens information that could be shown on just one screen/popup). But, even if they are still really bad at this, the SSDs will make the process less painful (that's already the case even running 2021 off a SATA SSD, let alone what the internal NVMe PS5 drive will be capable of).

With the new consoles there could be various quality of life improvements on-pitch too. E.g. not resetting play completely when there's a throw-in (currently it happens sometimes but not all the time); this issue could still happen if there's generational cross-play though, but probably not the year after. Also stadiums can be filled with more elements given CPU/GPU improvements, and they can be doing more unique and interesting things.

Lastly, I am just hopeful that the team taking two years and moving to a new engine has given them the chance to take a synoptic/overhead view of the game, its vision, its methodological principles, etc. They really have had a chance now to go "okay, what are we going to do with this game? how shall we make it?" I feel like that's a chance they basically haven't given themselves since developing PES 2014 and PES 2015. Instead it's been "okay, how are we going to tweak the last game?"
 

Emroth

Other Games Mod
Staff
18 August 2018
Ireland
That's why I'm saying it's something that should be tweaked. It's not a bad concept, but it's not perfect either. It's far from good in its current state.
In its current state it would be better for everyone if they scrapped it altogether.

When it comes to Adaptive AI - it should only "know" 3 things
1. Who am I playing against and what's their position in the league
2. What position in the league are we in
3. What was the result of previous match (if its a cup match)

And based on these three - AI should
- either put more pressure on you and play more aggressive football
- or play it more defensive and careful.

(During a break between first and second half AI approach can also be tweaked based on result.)

Under no circumstances it should affect your team and performance. You should only be forced to react to what's happening on the pitch.

And worst of them all - who the hell came up with an idea that if I buy Bob, who is a "great captain" - my team spirit will go from 60 to 90!? Bob doesnt know anybody on the team. Nobody knows Bob.
How the hell placing him in first 11 suddenly can turn the table is beyond me.
 

Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
In its current state it would be better for everyone if they scrapped it altogether.

When it comes to Adaptive AI - it should only "know" 3 things
1. Who am I playing against and what's their position in the league
2. What position in the league are we in
3. What was the result of previous match (if its a cup match)

And based on these three - AI should
- either put more pressure on you and play more aggressive football
- or play it more defensive and careful.

(During a break between first and second half AI approach can also be tweaked based on result.)

Under no circumstances it should affect your team and performance. You should only be forced to react to what's happening on the pitch.

And worst of them all - who the hell came up with an idea that if I buy Bob, who is a "great captain" - my team spirit will go from 60 to 90!? Bob doesnt know anybody on the team. Nobody knows Bob.
How the hell placing him in first 11 suddenly can turn the table is beyond me.

You could argue that a deep analysis of my past tactics and performances through my upcoming opponent is realistic. However, this realism goes out of the window the moment this analysis means that your opponent players can suddenly outperform their own stats and play above their league just because their coach „figured you out“.

I am actually not that bothered with TS, but I am convinced without „Adaptive AI“ ML would immediately be much more enjoyable. As it stands, it slowly but steadily chokes gameplay by giving you fewer and fewer options match after match and it also leaves you with this lingering feeling of being cheated all of the time (even if objectively you aren‘t).

Playing on the PC my biggest wish is that some modder will find the switch and turn it just off because I doubt Konami will.
 

PotatoCouch

Premiership
17 September 2013
Yokohama, Japan
Yokohama F Marinos
Playing on the PC my biggest wish is that some modder will find the switch and turn it just off because I doubt Konami will.
PC and only PC is the platform where Winning Eleven meant to be played at; and don't be surprised that your modded 2021 exceed vanilla 2022 in all aspects (gameplay, graphics). I hope I am wrong ... but when you put Konami in the equation, normally I am right.
 

Spursfan07

Champions League
10 February 2019
PC and only PC is the platform where Winning Eleven meant to be played at; and don't be surprised that your modded 2021 exceed vanilla 2022 in all aspects (gameplay, graphics). I hope I am wrong ... but when you put Konami in the equation, normally I am right.
My concern too, sometimes I play the game and think: this already looks pretty photorealistic to me (modded graphics), let's hope Unreal engine will go atleast one step further than a modded PES 2021
 

༺Ƥeຮ༻

League 2
13 July 2020
Any actual news yet???
Nope, Konami says that there will be news closer to release, which means August if the game will be released in September.



I personally expect Konami to release a beta version of the game in August, perhaps closed to test online mode stability, as they did with PES 2011 and PES 2014, but it is also possible that it will be combined with the demo.
 
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rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I'd say I'm probably someway between romantic/pessimistic. I think we're going to get a better game than 2020/21, by which I mean less buggy and with fewer on-pitch contradictions. But I think the smoother, cleaner result will be directed in favour of their gameplay ambitions: a game fit for esports, with exciting moments. So, on that score, I'm not confident various AI issues will be sorted – e.g., that we might finally have a midfield again.

But you asked for optimism! So.. I'll say this.

I don't think this applies specifically to the next PES game, but to future footie games in general – surely dev teams at some point will start to use neural networks to determine team shape and defending/attacking habits in a range of circumstances. They can potentially feed in the data of thousands of games for the neural networks to output realistic formations and changes on the pitch. That could be quite an exciting thing. On the other hand, it could make the actual coding of the AI something of a "black box", and difficult to tweak. (I'm not a dev or coder, so no idea how easy this would be.)

Another thing I am reasonably excited about is the new engine: it is likely to give them a much greater time budget to focus on whatever other development goals they have. That might mean more time spent making the game play in a way I don't like, but I think it's reasonable also to expect it to be less buggy as a result. And I am hoping that designing certain elements afresh with the engine tools will mean they're not plastering layers on top of buggy layers, keeping around particular "legacy glitches" year after year.

Another thing: new consoles. I really don't know what to expect in terms of the UX going forward – Konami have been so bad at it for so long, I am a bit scared it will be more of the same (e.g. making you confirm through five separate successive screens information that could be shown on just one screen/popup). But, even if they are still really bad at this, the SSDs will make the process less painful (that's already the case even running 2021 off a SATA SSD, let alone what the internal NVMe PS5 drive will be capable of).

With the new consoles there could be various quality of life improvements on-pitch too. E.g. not resetting play completely when there's a throw-in (currently it happens sometimes but not all the time); this issue could still happen if there's generational cross-play though, but probably not the year after. Also stadiums can be filled with more elements given CPU/GPU improvements, and they can be doing more unique and interesting things.

Lastly, I am just hopeful that the team taking two years and moving to a new engine has given them the chance to take a synoptic/overhead view of the game, its vision, its methodological principles, etc. They really have had a chance now to go "okay, what are we going to do with this game? how shall we make it?" I feel like that's a chance they basically haven't given themselves since developing PES 2014 and PES 2015. Instead it's been "okay, how are we going to tweak the last game?"
I'm quite interested in what they have made given they just had a season update last year.
But that also makes this release a "make or break" for me.
If they've had an extra year to develop the gameplay/visuals/direction I'm pretty sure that's the direction we'll see for a number of games in the future.
It's interesting/terrifying times ahead mate.
 
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rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
And worst of them all - who the hell came up with an idea that if I buy Bob, who is a "great captain" - my team spirit will go from 60 to 90!? Bob doesnt know anybody on the team. Nobody knows Bob.
How the hell placing him in first 11 suddenly can turn the table is beyond me.
Exactly.
 

Lami

Niche Football
28 May 2007
Sydney
Man Utd, Juve
My concern too, sometimes I play the game and think: this already looks pretty photorealistic to me (modded graphics), let's hope Unreal engine will go atleast one step further than a modded PES 2021
It's not just about graphics. For me that's a given now. I'm much looking forward to the physics and AI. All realistic animations and how players interact with the ball. How the ball moves. How the players position themselves. All this stuff. And of course being responsive.
 

rojofa

Premiership
15 September 2017
Perhaps not really relevant for this thread, but this talk was posted a couple of weeks ago by the Ubisoft guys researching the physics based animation I've mentioned before;


If you have an hour to spare I think it's really interesting to hear how they're achieving it, how viable it is, why, what it could offer etc. It's not about sports games, more general animation/AI and game dev focus. If nothing else it's great to see this project is still very much still part of Ubisoft's plans, not just a shelved academic experiment.

If/when this stuff becomes the standard for game animations, it should naturally force revolutionary changes to the gameplay.

PES 2022 is probably 99% certain not to do anything so ambitious, but maybe in yet another generation these AI/physics animation techniques will become the standard for many studios.
 

james goblin

Non-League
13 June 2018
Give the guy a break man. I know he's done questionable stuff but this is just plain rude. I mean, if I was in his spot, I'd be doing worse. Dealing with other departments, especially if they speak another language, it sometimes makes you miserable.
speaking only from personal experience, dude behaved like power-drunk bully when he was managing the forums, which would be ok on a personal social media page, but when you're selling the place as a community one must be open to allow opinions one does not necessarily agree with.
to me he's a clown not deserving of any kind of respect.
 
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