ITALY thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Damjan

World Cup Winner
16 July 2011
Arsenal|Juventus|ASSE
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

How? Everytime something in Italy happens it's zoomed in on a 100 times. I suppose it is true Italy is still behind most countries, but in reality many other countries are not better. There's is racism in Spain and England too.
 

LFC Albania

Banned
13 October 2012
Kosova
Albania NT
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

there is racism in whole world, some people say racist things but they are not racist...
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Wind Up Merchant.. nice. i gotta admit, u could have given me a million guesses, i still wouldn't have got that. :P

now a quick follow up question: what's the difference between a WUM and a troll? and into which of the 2 categories this guy falls?
because it's largely true
don't take it personally Godotelli... i'm just trying to expand my understanding on internet acronyms and expressions. :D

i'd be tempted to ask u how many times u've been inside an italian stadium and how many different italian stadia have u visited (u know, just to establish your credibility as an expert on the subject), but honestly, i don't think i need an answer from u....

i gotta be honest with u... i don't even disagree with u that much. there's some crazy shit going on inside some italian stadia.
i'm just annoyed by people who pretend to express an opinion on matters they don't really know anything about.
oh, and btw damjan, this right here is precisely why stereotypes are hard to fight. they're born out of ignorance. and since u can't eradicate ignorance on a global scale....
 
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LFC Albania

Banned
13 October 2012
Kosova
Albania NT
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

you mean some ppl say race related things that are not racist lol

no, say race related things that sound racist but are not racist.... does this category exist? is a name for this? LOL

my girl call me racist so many times but im not :LOL: :/
 

bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

tell her you dont subscript being a racist for dating a blk girl...you should be registered a anti-racism supporter for life really lol
 

LFC Albania

Banned
13 October 2012
Kosova
Albania NT
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

tell her you dont subscript being a racist for dating a blk girl...you should be registered a anti-racism supporter for life really lol

we drove from ATL to NY and all we talked was about race, how when a white guy kills a black guy its with years on tv and everyone say he killed him just coz he's black, and when same happen but black guy kills a white guy its 1 day in tv and no way he killed him just coz he's black lol

about me I say some stuff like i meet her friends and a dude looked like 50 cent, when i said her he look like 50 cent she think he doesn't at all and than i said "I dont know all black people look the same" :LOL: I'm not racist but sometimes I say stuff like this without intention to hurt someones feelings lol (wait am I racist? LOL )
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Wind Up Merchant.. nice. i gotta admit, u could have given me a million guesses, i still wouldn't have got that. :P

now a quick follow up question: what's the difference between a WUM and a troll? and into which of the 2 categories this guy falls?

don't take it personally Godotelli... i'm just trying to expand my understanding on internet acronyms and expressions. :D

i'd be tempted to ask u how many times u've been inside an italian stadium and how many different italian stadia have u visited (u know, just to establish your credibility as an expert on the subject), but honestly, i don't think i need an answer from u....

i gotta be honest with u... i don't even disagree with u that much. there's some crazy shit going on inside some italian stadia.
i'm just annoyed by people who pretend to express an opinion on matters they don't really know anything about.
oh, and btw damjan, this right here is precisely why stereotypes are hard to fight. they're born out of ignorance. and since u can't eradicate ignorance on a global scale....

So I'm either a troll or a wum, I'm expressing an opinion on something I know nothing about and my ignorance is why stereotypes prevail ...but you don't disagree with what i said. Feel free to make sense of that for me. :TU:


Anyway, the world is a small place these days. We don't need to be a live witness to something to be informed about it.
Italy is a comparatively racist nation, both historically and currently. It's not really a secret, just as it's not a secret that the US is a comparatively jingoist nation and my nation is a comparatively docile and servile nation. All nations have their ugly characteristics. It doesn't mean all individuals suffer them tho.

As to your first question, on Evoweb there's a tendency to get called a troll or a wum when you say something that offends the sensibilities of someone who can't actually argue the point. Not the best place to garner a perfect understanding of the terms. Evoweb's ugly characteristic, I guess.
 
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bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

American doesn`t even have a official language.

http://answers.usa.gov/system/templ...1012/article/3206/Official-Language-of-the-US

The Racism and ethnic discrimination in the US. I was going to start w/ The Atlantic Slave Trade, but realize who cares . Prejudices is part of the world we live in. We all are guilty of thrown stones at glass houses. I dont think lo zio was referring to you as a wum or a troll it was towards LFC-Albania
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

So I'm either a troll or a wum, I'm expressing an opinion on something I know nothing about and my ignorance is why stereotypes prevail ...but you don't disagree with what i said. Feel free to make sense of that for me. :TU:

first of, mate, let me say i was not having a go at u. i was merely messing around with u a bit, but i apologise if i insulted u. :)) now to the making sense part...

i said "i don't disagree with u that much", because, like i said, there is some crazy shit going on in some italian stadia..... just not the racist shit u seem to refer to u.
and i remarked your ignorance about italian stadia..... because i assumed from your post u have no real experience on the subject (however feel free to contradict me if u actually have been inside different italian stadia on a decent ammount of occasions ;) )

despite the common stereotype u just mentioned, the world is really "not" a small place, and there are some things u really need to experience in person, to really understand them. that doesn't apply to everything of course.
for instance i don't need to have been living in england during the 17th, the 18th or the 19th century to be able to tell u that your idea of your country being historically "docile" and "servile" is absolutely crazy... (hilariously theese adjectives are much more appropriate to italy, but perhaps i'll tell u about that in the pm i'm gonna send u).

on the other side some other things need to be experienced in person. experiencing an italian stadium in person is really the only way to understand what's wrong with italian stadia (and italian fans).... because otherwise u'll have to rely on sources of information such as martin samuel and his fellow british colleagues (who are the real pride of british journalism), and trust me.... that's really not good.
also it's worth mentioning that when u watch a game on tv, the camera hardly ever points at the crowd (they tend to be rather focused on what's going on the pitch), so u don't really get so see anything from a tv..... unless there's something going wrong..... and even then, u need someone to put things in context and to explain u what's going on (like i did when i explained to u that booeing a player is not a racist abuse in italy and that white players are booed as much as black players)... and of course, living in england, u won't ever listen to a commentator who is capable of doing that.

finally, as for your remark about italy being an historically racist country, u clearely know even less about italian history than u know about italian stadia (and from what i see, a brush up on english history wouldn't hurt u either :P).
i'm gonna get back to you on this topic tomorrow (if i can find the time).... but i'm gonna do it with a pm, coz i don't wanna drag this thread off topic :))

and i'm also gonna need some additional information about the difference between a WUM and a troll, coz i'm still quite confused about it.:P
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

RE: docile and servile.

I was referring to the population's relationship with the state.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

RE: docile and servile.

I was referring to the population's relationship with the state.

yeah... still ridiculously wrong mate. i got 3 words for u: new. model. army. (and i'm not talking about the band :D )
anyway i just sent u a pm mate, so let's continue this conversation through private messages (so we don't bore everyone else to death :P ).

and to bring this thread back on topic...
new italy coach... what's your pick? :)) personally i wouldn't mind guidolin.... it's much less a risk than mancini imo.
 
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Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

The civil war was ages ago. With regards to the american and english populations I was referring to the present day. Hence the use of "is a" Both populations are very different than they used to be.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

The civil war was ages ago.

no it wasn't. that was yesterday. if u wanna establish the common traits of a population, u have to consider their entire history.
otherwise it would be like pretending to describe your character and basing your description only on what happened to you in the last 6 months. :))


http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/mondiali_2014/girone-d/italia/2014/06/26-366834/Mondiali+2014+Italia%2C+Pirlo+pronto+a+ripensarci%3A+%C2%ABSe+serve%2C+ci+sono%C2%BB
apparently pirlo is willing to reconsider his international retirement.
i'd say he's too old, but then again he was the most in-form player in our team in brasil.
 
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bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

About Pirlo ,Must of been that 40 yr old Columbian GK fault. I say euro16 maybe...
 

cfdh_edmundo

Maverick
30 December 2002
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I don't think you can say Italy is a racist country, maybe many decades ago you could say this with a degree of justification but I don't think it's true anymore. There are quite a lot of foreigners living there and most dont experience many problems, there have been several black MPs serving in the Italian parliment. Major race crimes dont happen very often and when they do it's headline news and not brushed under the carpet or covered up (I remember a few years ago someone was kicked to death in Milan because they were foreign and it was national scandal and all over the papers).

Obviously there are some problems with certain individuals (there are 1 or 2 total nut-job politicians in Italy who are racist) and there have been some major problems with sections of fans at some clubs chanting racist chants (I think Juventus fans were the worst for this, doing it for many matches in a row a few years ago) and perhaps the authorities should have done more to combat this. But I don't think you can infer, from this, that Italy is a racist country.

As for Balotelli, in footballing terms I would still have him in the squad (maybe not the team) as I think he offers a unique threat the other Italian strikers can't really provide at the moment. If you look at his goal against the English, the goal was "made" by Candreva but only a player like Balotelli would get into that position and make the run and have the power to score it. Maybe Immobile could have made a similar run but I'm not sure Rossi or Cassano could have. If Insigne and Candreva are in the Italian squad (and both should be because they are some of the best wide attacking players the Italians have) then, in my opinion, it makes sense to have Balotelli in the squad. Obviously if he is very disruptive then it could be counter-productive but with a new manager in a sense the slate is wiped clean and everyone has a new relationship with him.
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

no it wasn't. that was yesterday. if u wanna establish the common traits of a population, u have to consider their entire history.
otherwise it would be like pretending to describe your character and basing your description only on what happened to you in the last 6 months. :))


http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/mondiali_2014/girone-d/italia/2014/06/26-366834/Mondiali+2014+Italia%2C+Pirlo+pronto+a+ripensarci%3A+%C2%ABSe+serve%2C+ci+sono%C2%BB
apparently pirlo is willing to reconsider his international retirement.
i'd say he's too old, but then again he was the most in-form player in our team in brasil.

370 years of societal change is hardly analogous to 6 months of an individual life.
Besides, history tells you the evolution of a society. It has explanatory power but it's not necessary to determine what the current attitude is.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

godotelli said:
370 years of societal change is hardly analogous to 6 months of an individual life.
Besides, history tells you the evolution of a society. It has explanatory power but it's not necessary to determine what the current attitude is.
but u weren't just talking about the current traits. u wrote, and i'm quoting your own words here, "both historically and currently".

besides what u wrote right there is an oxymoron, a nonsensical paradox.
if "history tells u about the evolution of a society", like u wrote (and u're right on that), than that's exactly what's "necessary to determine what the current attitude is".
u're a smart guy godotelli...... so (f i may give u a small advice) don't ever say again that "history it's not necessary to determine the current traits of a population".

knowing our past is the key to understanding what we are today. and that applies to individuals, as well as societies.
what u are today is the result of every people u met in your life, of every conversation u had, of every book u read, of every place u lived in or just visited for a short period of time, of everything your parents, your teachers, those u considered your mentors taught u in your life, of every subject you studied, of everything and everyone u loved or hated, liked or disliked in your life. every single experience u had in your life, up to this very moment, adds up to define what u are today.

and the same applies to our societies. u can't understand or explain what england is today, without cromwell or dickens, without shakespeare or henry viii or james ii. when it comes to "explaining where the english society stands today" theese people are just as important as tony blair or margaret thatcher.

if you're really curious about the italian people and their traits, then read dante, read machiavelli, read petrarca and foscolo, read sciascia and baricco... listen to puccini, verdi rossini or donizetti... or come live here for a little while. u'll find out italians have pretty much every weakness, every flaw ever documented in mankind's history.
infact the one good thing.... really the only good thing i can say about us italians today, is that we're kind people and that we don't make any difference between a black person or a white person... or between a christian and a jew and a muslim and an atheist.
i'm serious here, when i compare the italian society to others societies, this is the only good thing about us i can honestly come up with.:( (which speaks volumes about the current state of our society).
edmundo said:
Obviously if he is very disruptive then it could be counter-productive but with a new manager in a sense the slate is wiped clean and everyone has a new relationship with him.
that's true. but what about his relationship with his teammates? prandelli is gone, but they aren't.
 
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Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

but u weren't just talking about the current traits. u wrote, and i'm quoting your own words here, "both historically and currently".

besides what u wrote right there is an oxymoron, a nonsensical paradox.
if "history tells u about the evolution of a society", like u wrote (and u're right on that), than that's exactly what's "necessary to determine what the current attitude is".
u're a smart guy godotelli...... so (f i may give u a small advice) don't ever say again that "history it's not necessary to determine the current traits of a population".

As I've said, I was when talking about England.

There is no paradox. We do not need to know the biological evolution of humans to know that humans exist. The existence of humans is self evident. Equally, we do not need to know why a country is X to know that a country is X.
So, I will have to ignore your advice because well.. it's wrong :). We needn't look at why to determine what is


knowing our past is the key to understanding what we are today. and that applies to individuals, as well as societies.
what u are today is the result of every people u met in your life, of every conversation u had, of every book u read, of every place u lived in or just visited for a short period of time, of everything your parents, your teachers, those u considered your mentors taught u in your life, of every subject you studied, of everything and everyone u loved or hated, liked or disliked in your life. every single experience u had in your life, up to this very moment, adds up to define what u are today.

I don't disagree (tho would add a big chunk of nature to the nurture) but that's completely unnecessary to (to quote you)
"establish the common traits of a population". To establish these traits you need only look at the population as it is today.

and the same applies to our societies. u can't understand or explain what england is today, without cromwell or dickens, without shakespeare or henry viii or james ii. when it comes to "explaining where the english society stands today" theese people are just as important as tony blair or margaret thatcher.

Heh, I don't think Shakespeare has as much pull over today's population as X Factor does but I agree in principle.
 
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