Is F2P Really an issue?

vialli82

vialli82

International
4 September 2005
Juventus
Just one thing, i saw "oh no just a F2P game".
There's an issue we all agree about it : no more physical game, and i'm like to "collect" games years by years.
But otherwhise, F2P is not an issue : but Online only is.

F2P is also very different from a game to another : some are a full connected online free service, a bit like a streaming game, some aren't.
A fooball game with some missing very important licences for example (Efootball and probably the two others F2P), can't make the impass about for example a fake Man City, or a Fake Real Madrid : they MUST have an option file on it. So they got to have the application offiline, editable, exactly like it was on PES Lite.

My own opinion was always F2P = bad game with missings stuffs. But i tried Dead or Alive for example : ALL was similar to the physical version. In fact, it depends a lot of the game's past / If it's a new or old game.
Tekken could be also a F2P game, with history involved too.

I don't talk at all about the Efootball situation in terms of advancement, it's another story. Just ask to the "pro" of F2P systems, what could be wrong with that system. I see you can mod everything with updated, buy some stuff and don't buy what you don't have interest on... Etc.
So i don't really see, in gaming only terms, what's the problem. Also, no internet connection on 2021 if you got a PS4, Xbox X/S or PS5... Is not an argument to me. We're not at the launch of PS360.

I just want the real + and - (no physical game is a - for example, i already said, choosing the mode you want and the one you don't like to me Myclub > not buying this, is a +)
 
Free to play is pretty much always an issue with games.
They maybe FREE TO PLAY - But they are 99% of the time they are pay to win..

I don't actually play many FTP games, except a couple I have on my phone.
Real Star Soccer which used to be a chargeable game, but a couple of years ago went FTP.. However since going FTP you can purchase an agent or a trainer which without purchasing you never have any stamina, so you are always substitute or you spend you in game earnings on cans.
When it was purchasable for real money, the game had it programmed so that you always had the best trainer meaning the game was enjoyable.
The FTP version of the game is just annoying and not very enjoyable.

FTP exists on the basis that game companies make more money on selling in game items than the price of the game and will continue to keep buying items for the 3-5 years duration the game is available.
Everyone wants to make a fortnite.
 
There are lots of elements to take in consideration when we're talking about a product purchased with money vs. a free to play product:

From the start there is the development of F2P that has a different scope comparing it to a paid game. When a F2P game is developed they are taking in consideration various aspects that are related to monetization: how they can make a shell or skeleton (gameplay) point A, and implement a necesity to it (in game virtual store) point B, to involve users addicted as possible and pursue them to get always from the point A to point B and back and forth. Point A will always need a point B in a "live service". In very rare occasions there are good games like Warframe for example that the store it's just about cosmetics, but the majority have that system implement into them to nickle & dime users and manipulate players via gameplay in such a way like they'll need to spend constantly to get something "better", and the most important thing for those publishers is their database registry, where it shows what user spends & how much on a game like that. Then, gameplay could be good until some point of its development, or could be very bad from the beginning, but the system alone in most of the situations it's manipulative and predatory to obtain benefit... Now talking about paid games, the question is: there are examples of paid games predatory like those F2P live services? Of course they are !!! If you look at FIFA, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Fortnite etc... all have those nasty loot boxes into them, and a store to buy virtual currency to manipulate as greedy as much or even more than some F2P live services. Fortnite is F2P and makes so much money...

As stated, to finalize it with a positive mention, I prefer any day a full price paid game (digital or not) that when it's developed to include passion and an entire package of content, unlockables that should be discovered by gameplay, no fucking coins stores, or to force me to stay online all the time. It's a videogame that I should play alone lost in that world late night or in my free time on my couch with friends or family, to have some fun... All those "live services" nowadays apart from being casinos, attracts all type of uneducated spoiled toxic brats in a fake "competitive" scene that publishers are creating to manipulate "whales" and pursue them to their store... From my point of view, F2P that are considered "live services" and some paid games that are considered the same shouldn't exist in the videogame industry, because it's just like a pure cancer growing larger and larger.... and those twats using them are ok, like this is something cool and normal...
 
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If a game were purely F2P, I would be 100% OK with it. I don't see how it could ever be a problem.

If such game had lootboxes (that could be also bought with real money) only containing cosmetic things (say, skins or new haircuts for your characters) or things that wouldn't give the player an edge over the others (talking about FUT/eFootball... A special stadium, new choreos, new kits which would only be available through opening loot boxes), I'd be perfectly OK with that too. I'd stick with the "free" stadium/kits/ball/whatever.

If such game then started to have lootboxes, purchasable with real money, containing boosts and/or items not available (or extremely difficult to obtain) to the players not willing to spend real money in the game... I'd not be that OK with it anymore.

TL;DR: OK with free to play (even with paid cosmetic/environmental items), NOT OK with pay to win.
 
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- Replayability/game preservation is probably my main, "concrete" issue. I still have to understand if this new model will overwrite things every year or if every update will be something independent from the previous (but what would the point be in all this F2P thing then?). What happens if by some miracle this ML or whatever they'll call it is a very solid game and they decide to neuter things the year after, or to change something I really really liked? In the first case it's gone forever. As somebody who frequently comes back to old games that would be unacceptable to me.

- The main focus is right there. Useless to beat around the bush, true earning for F2P game is in the pvp, if EA with all their other modes obsessively bent over FUT crowd and Konami not even talking about it aren't enough, the two new games that not even thought about sp for a second are also there to reinforce the idea. I admit the problem it's something broader than just mere F2P per se, but not having companies put an effort to present a complete paying package also heavily concur.

F2P isn't there so make life easier to players, is rather a well studied system put there to milk as much as possible. In this system I think it's far, far easier to see games that hook players via cheap methods than proper artistic directions like we used to have when titles were sold as a whole.

Then it's not like from a F2P system can't absolutely come a good game anyway.

I played for a robust 3-4 years League of Legends, which is purely free to play (in the sense that you can't buy boosts and gameplay stuff, only cosmetical things, all the rest like runes, champions etc etc. you can buy but you can also obtain by grind).. and say what you want, but if you like mobas that was (is?) ace, an absolute masterpiece with a blow minding depth that I forced myself to stop play only when I saw how bad it was for my mood, but that's another story.

But LOL (as many others) was born in that environment. I know that, I accept the bargain. But I grew up with Pes as a complete game and I'll never be accustomed to see it falling in line with the rest of the fast food gaming industry. I'm out of time and so on and so forth, but it really is what it is. I'd love to see signals that I'm wrong but as of now everything point to a precise direction.
 
I have said it before and I'll say it again now. F2P is not an Issue. The issue is how 99.99% of companies and developers implement Microtransactions in the titles which can end up causing it to become P2W. That is where the issue is, F2P in itself with constant updates is not a bad idea as it gives Developers more freedom, but we know that the developer is not the one who makes all these decisions from the above. It is the Producer and CEO and those people who decide to make it F2P. And we all know why they choose that, not to help developers, but to help their and the company's Finances.
 
Placebo said:
Vigor is an excellent F2P game and is very fair and great and awesome, and I'm not biased at all...


:)
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Looks nice, i found my next Switch f2p game....Why teh heck Nintendo does never suggest me those games, when i search for free games in Nintendo e-shop!!!!:BAND:
 
You know what (now that i mentioned Switch).. I am really wondering how hasn't NINTENDO converted Mario Kart to a "F2P-game-as-a-service" already.

I mean all the "potential" is there. Possibility for microtransactions, cosmetics and pay-to-win, pay-to-play elements, the game engine is almost the same since N64, so it could be something stable with low effort forever, there is the "competitive" element, although it includes a lot RNG that the "skill-gap" crowd would hate..

And their mobile versions have failled totally, due to the awefull paywall they are building in.. So it could be a rehab for them.
 
slamsoze said:
You know what (now that i mentioned Switch).. I am really wondering how hasn't NINTENDO converted Mario Kart to a "F2P-game-as-a-service" already.

I mean all the "potential" is there. Possibility for microtransactions, cosmetics and pay-to-win, pay-to-play elements, the game engine is almost the same since N64, so it could be something stable with low effort forever, there is the "competitive" element, although it includes a lot RNG that the "skill-gap" crowd would hate..

And their mobile versions have failled totally, due to the awefull paywall they are building in.. So it could be a rehab for them.
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Maybe Nintendo just aren't c**ts
 
bsmaff said:
Maybe Nintendo just aren't c**ts
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Just to complete my post, aside from my dark questionings, and to be OnTopic, i find F2P models "bad", first of all cause it removes all the prestige and the glamour of a full-retail title. I mean no mattter how good it can be, the f2p title is playing ball in a different field, in my eyes. I don't want to go deeper on this. Apart from the obvious different financial objectives that a f2p title has.
 
In fact, i'm not familiar about F2P at all, only tried Dead or Alive.
But i saw from YT vids that there's tons of different approach. Nothing like DAO Online.
Some games aren't even F2P and looks having completely the same system of lootboxes etc. especially shooter style (F or T).
Or modes having it.

The issues are updates, but like i see from PESMOBILE, update are yearly : it's equal to a new version each year like we got now.
Well Efootball is in another situation, the first year will be "in building" you can forget to play with it before 3 months after the release i think as it will be even worste than AO Tennis at release after 250 patchs...

Let's see about UFL. I don't want to ear about Goalz. It's a bit a premiere to me about sports games, especiallly representing reality so transfers like IRL etc., but it's still a 1 VS 1 game, in that case, one team vs one team. In fact, for all of them it's a first.

And as i said i ain't familiar with. Just see what would be "lootboxes" on those games. I think it will be all about DLC's, not really boots or stuffs like that, it's a bit more "Fifa-ish catalog" but they could be inspired with. The thing is they needs licences for it / Licences that Fifa already own.
 
vialli82 said:
In fact, i'm not familiar about F2P at all, only tried Dead or Alive.
But i saw from YT vids that there's tons of different approach. Nothing like DAO Online.
Some games aren't even F2P and looks having completely the same system of lootboxes etc. especially shooter style (F or T).
Or modes having it.

The issues are updates, but like i see from PESMOBILE, update are yearly : it's equal to a new version each year like we got now.
Well Efootball is in another situation, the first year will be "in building" you can forget to play with it before 3 months after the release i think as it will be even worste than AO Tennis at release after 250 patchs...

Let's see about UFL. I don't want to ear about Goalz. It's a bit a premiere to me about sports games, especiallly representing reality so transfers like IRL etc., but it's still a 1 VS 1 game, in that case, one team vs one team. In fact, for all of them it's a first.

And as i said i ain't familiar with. Just see what would be "lootboxes" on those games. I think it will be all about DLC's, not really boots or stuffs like that, it's a bit more "Fifa-ish catalog" but they could be inspired with. The thing is they needs licences for it / Licences that Fifa already own.
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Now that i am making a rewind. Excluding every MOBILE game , cause most of them are F2P, or freemium, every F2P game genre i have played on PC has a common denominator. The vsCOM or the PvE experience, is from very basic/regressed to non-existent.

I mean i am rethinking now, LoL, heroes of the storm? (blizzard) , Dota, the new CS. All have bery basic vsCOM modes, while they could have more potential in those modes, or BOTS like in CS, at least the old one 1.5/1.6? LAN versions, can't recall clear.

I think it is something directly connected to competitive PvP only. At least 99,9% of the time.

I remember now, 10 years ago, when i stopped playing LoL for serious, i was wishing an offline mode, like the old Quest, story mode that the old RTS games for PC used to have, but with the new LoL pseudoRPG/MOBA elements. Of course this woud never happen.

Of course as @Madmac79 said, LoL was created in this F2P context, so it is a different case from PES/ā‚¬Futebol for example.
 
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slamsoze said:
You know what (now that i mentioned Switch).. I am really wondering how hasn't NINTENDO converted Mario Kart to a "F2P-game-as-a-service" already.
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Their games are meant to sell their hardware, that's their bigger/true business. That's why their games are also usually exclusive to the system, they don't care if Game X could make more money on its own. So they just want to make good games that you'd want to play.
 
Well football games are not at all RPG with the same elements, thanks for that. So UFL/Efootball (future), sincerely i don't see much more than we already got now. Like boots, shorts, not even special shirts (as you can recreate them with Edit mode)

Will probably DLC offline and online mode we don't know yet others than division or Myclub, and players packs.
I hope neither of the two will get managers. It's already a big pain in the ass to update, serve to nothing, and Myclub would be much more fun if you may at least select your own formations / and not managers.

At least not for offline mode, i hope... It seemed okay at first, but with managerial changes, pictures to import etc. without having the possibility to create with the IG face editor...
Stadiums image, well. Who cares. Sponsors? You ony needed 3 sponsors in fact, by ML sessions, not all the team. The best way would be to import like max 40 of them, and making them selectable.
 
rockstrongo said:
You're not biased^^
And yes ,I love Vigor
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I'm definitely not no! You should also play Ylands, another fantastic, amazing, awesome F2P game that I'm not biased about ;)

slamsoze said:
Looks nice, i found my next Switch f2p game....Why teh heck Nintendo does never suggest me those games, when i search for free games in Nintendo e-shop!!!!:BAND:
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That is weird that, not sure why it isn't showing up there, hope you enjoy it! :)
 
Well after some months have passed, i want to post some thoughts of mine.

It is not general about F2P, but about the last 2 KONAMI'S f2p, game as a service attempts. I just post it here, to avoid opening a new topic.

First of all, as everyone knows, the last 2 remaining IPs in video gaming industry for KONAMI are "eFootball/exPES" and Yu-Gi-Oh.

Last January, KoNAMI out of nowhere,or better, after very little info, and without announcement of launching date, launched Yu-Gi-Oh Master Duel , a F2P , cross-platform, game as a service, a client to play Yu-Gi-Oh, from mobile, to PS4/PS5, Xbox1/XboxX and Nintendo Switch.

4 months after the launch ,what's the current situation and criticism about Duel Master?

The game lacks any serious offline, single player, PvE , story mode, as it was given from day one, the game is basically a heavy PvP client, been built for competitive PvP, grinding,loot boxes opening and Microtransactions.

Even by that Crowd, of PvP competitive scene, the criticism says that, KoNaMi can't give the support needed, lack of main events, some few events, that lack any variety,every now and then, some weekly events,that become repeatetive and exploitable after 1st day, smurf accounts, people with self-burning decks that just farm Crystals, the in-game currency.

The biggest complaint I read last week, the game has lost big of its players base, after the initial excitement.

The most optimistic talk about a -50% reduction to activate players in STEAM, while the most optimistic about a 80%~90% reduction in player base, in comparison between January-April.

All those from a fanbase -YU-GI-OH- fans that, despite being bigger in numbers than PES fans, they are less less critical towards KONAMI.

I think some similar fate will come for eFootball, if they keep the same greedy strategy and treatment. Of course there are differences between two IPs, but there are a lot in common too. Like the bloody paid "Season Update" fullgame/full price release.

What happened to PES video game until now, usually some months ago, happened to Yugioh video game.

Disclaimer: As me myself, being a member of both games dedicated communities, PES and Yugioh fan, i usually see an unexplained"elitism" by my fellow PES fans, that "cmon Yugioh is a kids game, blah,blah,blah... Its a cards game only for kids, etc"...

I am 35 years old, 36 in a while, and most people i see in YouTube, tournaments, local stores, regional games, casual players in local stores, are usually over my age. Same in the internet.

Then a piece of statistics, if you add the users of the fresh subreddit Duel Master, with the spinoff mobile game Duel Links (i don't even include the subreddits Yugioh official and Yugioh 101, which include anime and TCG/OCG fans), they're already 4 to 5 times bigger than PES, PES mobile, PES Master League and eFootball subreddits in summary.

The only big difference between 2 fan communities is that, PES dedicated community, although smaller in numbers, are more aggressive and with more hot criticism towards KONAMI,while the Yugioh fan base, for some reason, even those that are completely disappointed, are more passive or at "best" passive aggressive with their criticism.
 
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I think the biggest issue is that we won't have all stuffs from the beginning. And it will begin with an offline mode.

It's free, and they will of course add mode like i've said, Mo-des > Mo-ney.
As it's a sports games : you can make competition and all tournament vs the CPU. Kinda different with others F2P games.
Event DAO got it i think. And Street Fighter V is not F2P but you got NOTHING but the VS ONLINE mode when you buy it...

Then they add story modes for every characters, and the main story too, tournament offline mode etc.

I think as a VS game, Efootball will follow the same path. But to me, the biggest issue about VS games is we will got stuffs and new modes but part by part, and got to wait for it. That's what's ennoying. And we aren't sure about all the modes provided (League, Cup, easy. ML/Career > far less easy to build)
 
vialli82 said:
I think the biggest issue is that we won't have all stuffs from the beginning. And it will begin with an offline mode.

It's free, and they will of course add mode like i've said, Mo-des > Mo-ney.
As it's a sports games : you can make competition and all tournament vs the CPU. Kinda different with others F2P games.
Event DAO got it i think. And Street Fighter V is not F2P but you got NOTHING but the VS ONLINE mode when you buy it...

Then they add story modes for every characters, and the main story too, tournament offline mode etc.

I think as a VS game, Efootball will follow the same path. But to me, the biggest issue about VS games is we will got stuffs and new modes but part by part, and got to wait for it. That's what's ennoying. And we aren't sure about all the modes provided (League, Cup, easy. ML/Career > far less easy to build)
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About the Street Fighter, i had the same thoughts, as i own Dragon Ball figherZ.

Although DB FighterZ launched with a typical of "story mode" years ago, but after that the DLCs are only additional characters that affect only PvP, stages ,music updates, everything is towards online,not any additional "story mode".

But than again i think, and i have made the compromise, cause fighting games are mostly the best place to apply all the competitive values: 1vs1, PvP, skill gap, heavy competitive, etc....

I mean the replay-ability of the fighting games, even when we were kids, after we finished the offline mode, completing it with every character, was the PvP part, vs Friends, vs People online later...

So it is not that i love shallow fighting games, but I don't find it a betrayal of the fanbase, and I don't expect an investment in their Story Mode, apart from something very basic.

I mean , it is a common knowledge that most Fighting Games are produced to support E-Leagues, competitive events, like Evo (Evolution Championship Series)...

After all, fighting games were from the first E-sports in history, and the only genre that i find acceptable and suitable the 1vs1 concept.

Basically that's my question to all those who play football,or basketball games, and moan about 1-vs-1 and skill gap...Why they don't just go to play Fighting games?? There are tons of good fighting games titles , with top quality,and the 1vs1 skill gap, is the No1 factor there. The best environment to showcase their competitive skillgap, and leave the poor sports video games alone..
 
Yes, fighting games are all about PVP, it's by far easier to balance than others games : since Street fighter and Virtua Fighter/Tekken for 3D gameplay : the formula didn't has changed that much. It's far easier to produce, no script or whatever needed, it's a simple system from the debut 90's.

Sports games are a lot about PVP too, but not essentially you're right (PES more than others games, i'll explain).
I won't lie, PVP on PS360 era was new on console or let's say "finally playable" : on Fifa as an example, i never played anything but Divisions mode, neither career or offline. Never ever offline except a bit on the 16 and 17 (from the 08 to the 19 as i played 10 games max on the 20, counting the WC versions > 13 games)

But on PES, yes, because there's a lot of creation, playing with team you build like for Bundes, J-League etc. and the CPU was less annoying.
Otherwise, here on Evo-web, Pesgaming, is an exception : everyone i know never came back to offline since online works. I think it's because we get older and not in research of competition.

About the "older" who stayed online : most played on 11 vs 11 (Wearepes made a tournament with some teams, shared on Twitter), they also played online but on friendly with the guys from the community, well let's say since PES 6 X360, our first big tournament with Ligue 1 : all the guys i played at that time didn't came back offline and all was about offline. Unfortunately.

On my case after that "online period", i was more playing offline for a simple reason : it's, i won't say relaxing, but you very rarely got an opponent or a weirdo's scripted situation that make you quit the game: i just enjoyed to play more than when i was in competition.

Now back to what you're saying about Sports F2P : the thing is, about sports games / and one who already got a lot of offline mode so removing all...
We just have no clue what will happen. Now they failed so much that they don't answer anything concrete about the future like "it's a possibility" etc.
But i'm pretty sure stuffs are planned. Just that they fear to mention stuffs now about the future of the game, but i'm sure there's mode that will be to buy already in preparation. The question is like SFV : when. I don't want to wait 5 month for a league mode.
 
vialli82 said:
Yes, fighting games are all about PVP, it's by far easier to balance than others games : since Street fighter and Virtua Fighter/Tekken for 3D gameplay : the formula didn't has changed that much. It's far easier to produce, no script or whatever needed, it's a simple system from the debut 90's.

Sports games are a lot about PVP too, but not essentially you're right (PES more than others games, i'll explain).
I won't lie, PVP on PS360 era was new on console or let's say "finally playable" : on Fifa as an example, i never played anything but Divisions mode, neither career or offline. Never ever offline except a bit on the 16 and 17 (from the 08 to the 19 as i played 10 games max on the 20, counting the WC versions > 13 games)

But on PES, yes, because there's a lot of creation, playing with team you build like for Bundes, J-League etc. and the CPU was less annoying.
Otherwise, here on Evo-web, Pesgaming, is an exception : everyone i know never came back to offline since online works. I think it's because we get older and not in research of competition.

About the "older" who stayed online : most played on 11 vs 11 (Wearepes made a tournament with some teams, shared on Twitter), they also played online but on friendly with the guys from the community, well let's say since PES 6 X360, our first big tournament with Ligue 1 : all the guys i played at that time didn't came back offline and all was about offline. Unfortunately.

On my case after that "online period", i was more playing offline for a simple reason : it's, i won't say relaxing, but you very rarely got an opponent or a weirdo's scripted situation that make you quit the game: i just enjoyed to play more than when i was in competition.

Now back to what you're saying about Sports F2P : the thing is, about sports games / and one who already got a lot of offline mode so removing all...
We just have no clue what will happen. Now they failed so much that they don't answer anything concrete about the future like "it's a possibility" etc.
But i'm pretty sure stuffs are planned. Just that they fear to mention stuffs now about the future of the game, but i'm sure there's mode that will be to buy already in preparation. The question is like SFV : when. I don't want to wait 5 month for a league mode.
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Yes my initial point about F2P and specific what KoNaMI will/may offer, was that , the Treatment of Yu-Gi-Oh was a roadmap for PES.

In Yugioh:

1-KONAMI publices Yugioh Legacy Of the Duelist

2-KONAMI publices Yugioh Legacy Of the Duelist: Link Evolution. ( Which is an update, could come also as free Datapack Update or even paid DLC, but came as a full price separate game instead)

3-KoNAMi publices Master Duel, a F2P game as service platform, crossplay among all platforms & mobile.

In PES/ eFootball:

1- PES 2020
2- PES 2021 Season Update (Same as Link Evolution, could be a Datapack, or Free Update, or paid DLC. Instead , it came as a separate,ok not full price,but in a price close to full game)

3- eFootball F2P comes.....From here i hope for some changes, not so optimistic to be honest, but the massive backlash may have caused a change in plans.. Although we usually get info the the initial cross-platform,mobile compatible eFootball was already a chamge in plans fue to covid, in contrast to the initial PES 2022 nextgen level project...

______________________

PS: For the exception you mentioned, i can understand it, i think,if you still searching,you found the exception in my face. I was playing, or I was trying to play PES (and FIFA) online simce its first introduction in PES 5, even in the darkest days whem the internet provider here in Greece was basic ADSL, the early days of it...Sad times :)

And of course the PES 4 LAN games in internet cafƩ, with the awful host & client system.

Well to keep it short, the top of the mountain for me was PES2011, were i was playing 6 hours per day MLO, Master League online pvp, and barely 1 hour per week ML offline.

After that a lot League of Legends.. Well to conclude and keep it short, for tons of different and various reasons, got a job, created a family, for reasons in online PVP ,like toxic environment, the nature of competitive that transforms myself to a bad toxic character, for other reasons, like practical one: i want to have the right to press PAUSE amd go the toilet when i want to pee!!! :)

Well for the above and thousands other reasons i won't post now to keep it as short as possible, i came back to offline in most games, and this is my personal choice,to keep me calm and spent my limited free time on gamimg, as balanced and enjoying as possible.

But that's just a personal choice of mine, i can understand both sides, i don't like the separatism to choosing sides, i don't blame sides neither the Online nor the OFFline, cause i had the advantage to be part of both sides, so i know them both.

In PES the last time i tried to play online vs a player, was PES 2019 and mostly for a PS4 trophy..I wasn't keen on to continue and I did not. bUT i repeat, i don't blame anyone who likes online,not even MyClub or FuT, just because they like those modes per se.
 
I totally see that Yu-Gi-Oh / SFV scenario happening @slamsoze

I didn't followed the time neither the packages or the modes step by step, you describe it well, but i just remember that i got SFV on the PS+ with a very low price after at least a year and there was.... Practically nothing, i searched everywhere the full story mode like in SF4. But i given up VS games, i play the story mode then i'm bored : i play it since way too long.

Even if i was super tempted by MK11 : they got packs too but when you see the super casting they got, and that the game was FULL of modes when you brought it, at least Netherealm Studio wasn't a total hustle like SFV : the game was so so popular that they mocked completely the crowd and the prices where ultra high. Make me think a bit as what Nintendo's doing : they know they got super fans who will buy anything "Licenced by Nintendo" so their price are what i call "Apple level"

About the online freak, i was a bit at the beginning lol.
PES 5 i played a lot online with an RJ45 on PS2 lol. PES 6 on PC a bit, and PES 6 on 360 a lot... Without a 16/9 TV : i reduced my monitor screen to got a good resolution (on a 1048x1048 monitor i think) to make fit with the game in 4/3 : i dreamed to buy an HD Ready TV but it was too expensive just after brought a 360 šŸ˜­ (but one or two months later i brought it : just not when we did the big league online on WEAREPES)

Even with the quality level of my connexion, i enjoyed PES5, and it was just enough for playing. In counterpart, i never played from what i remember PES on PS3 version after the 2008. 2011-2014 version were all about editing, so offline playing. FIFA for online (i played much much more Fifa that era. To me PES was just amusing, and i liked some individualities, and the old school feeling, but to me Fifa with their engine + servers quality was so in advance in comparison...)

Well, i didn't played a lot of others games playable offline (as a SoulsBorne series fans) on PS4, and didn't got a PC at the time of FPS etc., where there's was "Cyber-coffee" with 10 to 20 PC to play on Counter Strike.
I just wasn't following the movement, and was more with my PS2 + chip and playing offline game usually, even if i brought PES every year.

We didn't needed it as i said before, we got a place where there were always someone to play against.
Let's say, my exception should have been MK10 but i stopped as i was took in the Bloodborne storm, that game became my obsession then i did the 1st Souls, then the 2 remake on PS4, and finally the 3. Then Nioh etc.

I tried a bit Destiny but in comparison to all people who played FPS since a long time (i only made the story, with some PVC friends helping me as some Bosses where too strong)
 
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