English Football = 100% Xenophobia

V

Vannizzlefashizzal

TWENTYTIMES!!!!
31 October 2002
What is it with this country??

All I hear about is too many foreign players ruining the national team....

Foreign managers ruining the national team...

And its complete and utter bollocks!!!

The 70's and early 80's was probley the countries most successful period in terms of english teams winning european trophies...

these teams consisted of mainly english, if not all english players...

yet englands results during this period were awful:

WC 1970 1/4 finals
WC 1974 failed to qualify
WC 1978 failed to qualify
WC 1982 group round 2

EC 1972 failed to qualify
EC 1976 failed to qualify
EC 1980 round 1

so how can anyone qualify this theory of "foreign players" ruining the national team???
 
this is simply an excuse from the media who need to blame everybody except the under performing stars
 
i guess the argument is that managers look abroad as opposed to the lower leagues or reserve squads of the top when looking for talent... but not sure if this is really englands problem or not
 
ALAIN said:
this is simply an excuse from the media who need to blame everybody except the under performing stars
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more then likeley this is the case... team selection for england has always been predictable... how many caps does carragher have? barry? are joe cole, sw phillips, really that much better then bentley... darrius vassel being selected a lot for a time(from what i remember) seems like its easier for managers to select players from the big 4, without even looking at the other teams... Kevin Nolan anyone?
 
I agree with the first post 100%. Spot on.

The sad thing is, loads of people think that it is Wenger's fault, obviously it's not. It's partly down to ignorance, part the media's influence and partly down to looking for someone else to blame.

Generic_idiot0011 watches England play badly. Next morning he reads in his chosen rag that there's x percent more foreign players than when the Premiership started in 92 so therefore this is the reason England's national team are crap at football. He doesn't have the intelligence to bother to actually think about it because that's a perfectly valid argument. :roll:

So that accounts for a large majority of fans (and people who don't follow football but read it in the paper anyway). Your average twat will believe whatever is put in front of them so long as it suits them, and they will influence their friends/colleagues and so on. Then you get the whole country (or so it would seem) blaming foreigners for England's failings.

When we lost to Croatia I don't know how many people I heard at work say this and it's just such a load of crap. You try and explain to them about the fact we've not won anything for 40 years anyway and that if anything, quality foreign players have had a positive influence on our game, but doesn't seem to make any difference.

Personally I believe it's down to psychological problems and tactics, as well as the simple fact that other countries have better players than us.

Hopefully, Capello will change things and give us a plan b because at the moment we're so one dimensional and predictable.
 
Yeah it's nonsense. There is a reason why the top managers are foreigners, they have actually worked and studied the game from the bottom up and have developed their skills. Unlike in england were most of the managers are ex-players who like to shout.

Also the comment about how the english teams used to dominate in the 70-ties and 80-ties. Liverpool actually had a 1st team without a single englishman during that period, they were all irish/scottish/welsh. But that gets ignored when we need to moan about Arsenal.

Its nonsense, there are numoures examples why english players and coaches arent developing. Although we were supposed to have the golden generation at the moment, who surprisingly, were brought up with the premiership in teams with quite a few foreigners........

Its just an easy excuse that the thickos, i.e. general public, will lap up and take as fact.
 
Firstly, not all Englishman are thick and believe everything they read in the papers.
Yes for the large part, we aren't as clued up about the technical aspect of football as our European neighbours, but it doesn't make them clueless idiots or racists or xenophobes.
You have to bear in mind that English football is and has been very different to other nation football for many years... for many bad reasons, but also for many good reasons.

Whilst the point is very valid, it is a little unfair to spread criticism to many people who just have a different outlook and raised on a different mentality... it's no secret we are technically years behind, but please do not cane us for it as we realise this and want to catch up.
The vast majority of English football fans recognise and completely agree with this sentiment too ;)


On to the point in question,- are foreigners to blame?

No


Well, to be honest I would say it is a small problem, but only one that has come about because of existing problems rather than being the cause.
We have many foreigners because our own players are grossly overpriced.
All this blaming Wenger is a load of cobblers.
You can spend £24m on Nigel Reo-Coker and Darren Bent or spend £500k on Kolo Toure.
Is it any wonder that Wenger and other clubs look abroad?!
This is why we have so many foreigners in our leagues.

Yes this will naturally hinder chances of English players coming through, but to be honest I have always been of the persuasion that if you are good enough, then you will be in the team.
If a young Englishman cannot get through the ranks at most clubs, it isn't because of all the foreigners, it is because he simply isn't good enough! (Though this isn't always true as I cannot really see Chelsea bringing through too much youth product when they can just go buy a great player).

Because of the overpricing of our players and the arrogance that they have, foreign clubs will never buy British.
You will not see English players playing abroad because they haven't learned the correct technical ability to play in that country.
Again we get to the circle... because they are overpriced and don't play abroad, they further miss out on learning massive elements to their technical game!
Foreign players in the main struggle with the pace and physical side of the British game.
We do have a great league, simply because it is our football, the way we like it and it is certainly the most exciting in the world, although not necassarily the best standard.
It's because it is so quick, powerful and action packed... but crucially because we have a mix of that and the foreign flair in it too!

But with most things, there are plus and minus points.
Dare I say, many home-grown players have usually been more loyal than many foreign players, but to be honest football has become so greedy and overinflated, there is little or no loyalty in football anymore.
Technique, training ability, attitude, professionalism, tactical astuteness are just a few attributes that English players have to learn from foreign players.

But even then, most of our English stars are so generally stupid, ignorant and arrogant by nature, that these will not be learned.
I really hope so much that Capello delivers what he promises and gives such arseholes as Lampard and Gerrard good kick up the arse.
For too long this country has been ruled by money and status as opposed to genuine ability.

It's sad that we hear when Wayne Rooney's wife takes a shit, yet when one of the most loyal and gifted players of the last 15 years (Ole Gunnar Solksjaer) retires, we hear nothing but a few pieces in the paper.
It's the sad state of affairs that footballers are more interested in fame and social standing than personal respect and integrity.

Of course not all English players are like this and not all Foreign players are great... For the most part, English players and people in general are very honest and noble people and always have been.

Sorry for rambling away from the football side.
Football in this country needs an overhaul from the very top down to the very roots.

We need to stop the grey men in grey suits running the game as much as we need to invest in coaching kids as young as 6years old how to play football the proper way.
But not just giving them a decent football education, but also a general good education too.

Am I the only one that gets the impression that, for all the ability and skill he has,- Joe Cole never made it past 14 years old at school?! :lol:
 
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Wenger believes that national football is pointless and I agree with him. He said in an interview in one of my Four-Four-Two's; "Look at Giggs. He has never played in a World Cup, it's not right." because of the poorer, smaller countries never having a chance at World Cups etc. With club football everyone can hope and dream. As for blaming foreigners, they have only done good for the game over here - this is why the Premiership is the most watched league across the world.
 
Plan M said:
Wenger believes that national football is pointless and I agree with him. He said in an interview in one of my Four-Four-Two's; "Look at Giggs. He has never played in a World Cup, it's not right." because of the poorer, smaller countries never having a chance at World Cups etc. With club football everyone can hope and dream. As for blaming foreigners, they have only done good for the game over here - this is why the Premiership is the most watched league across the world.
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I respect a lot Wenger but I don't agree with that point and I'm not sure he'd have the same one if he was a national team coach .
every one defend their own interst and he defends his as a club manager .
I personnally prefer national teams than clubs and I know the feeling is different in some countries like England and Spain . In the clubs the players play for fame and money even if there are exeptions but the national team are the only teams you can play for just for pride and love of the shirt (even if there are exeptions) .
I doubt Etoo who played for different teams in the same league including rivals feels the same when he kiss the NT's emblem . You can see Cana , Dehu , Mbami ... play for PSG then go to Marseille and say they love the shirt but I can only believe that sentence when it is about NT's shirt .
and there is something I really don't understand : people all over the world saying they are Barca supporters or Real supporters or Manchester supporters ... but they can't even get the visa to go to the countries of those clubs .
sorry but I'll have to wait for the all the world to be open to everyone to start thinking the same as Wenger (if he really think that way) .
 
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The blame for English football's failing lies in the culture. Foreign players will train and then after training will train some more. English players will go to the pub.
 
Plan M said:
Wenger believes that national football is pointless and I agree with him. He said in an interview in one of my Four-Four-Two's; "Look at Giggs. He has never played in a World Cup, it's not right." because of the poorer, smaller countries never having a chance at World Cups etc. With club football everyone can hope and dream. As for blaming foreigners, they have only done good for the game over here - this is why the Premiership is the most watched league across the world.
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i dont agree that its pointlesss....

theres nothing better than a WC summer....

I agree with SAF that the CL is a better comp in terms of quality spead throughout so many teams....
 
steevio_uk said:
Firstly, not all Englishman are thick and believe everything they read in the papers.
Yes for the large part, we aren't as clued up about the technical aspect of football as our European neighbours, but it doesn't make them clueless idiots or racists or xenophobes.
You have to bear in mind that English football is and has been very different to other nation football for many years... for many bad reasons, but also for many good reasons.

Whilst the point is very valid, it is a little unfair to spread criticism to many people who just have a different outlook and raised on a different mentality... it's no secret we are technically years behind, but please do not cane us for it as we realise this and want to catch up.
The vast majority of English football fans recognise and completely agree with this sentiment too ;)


On to the point in question,- are foreigners to blame?

No
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the xenophobia/racism only appears so much in english football because its already perpetuated in other aspects of english culture, (politics, media)

and it seems to pop up in football more so than say cricket or rugby.....

but you made some good points in your post...

i
 
I disagree with your middle point.

Not so much Rugby, but with sports like Tennis and Cricket,- unless you are white and middle class then you have less of a chance to make it.
Also, our nation does more than any other country in Europe when it comes to racism.

Generally I would not call our nation being stuck in it's ways as racism, as that is very strong and unfair.
I can agree in part with the xenephobia bit, but again it is not fair to label the nation, but more accurate to talk about much smaller group.

I think racism should be left well out of this debate, especially considering the problems our very own English black players have suffered such racist abuse all over other parts of Europe.
 
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It's true though. Other countries don't have the same drinking culture as we do. I played a lot many years ago and we always went to the pub after.
Even in the professional game there were many clubs with drinking cultures. Maybe one of the reasons Wenger prefers foreign players?
 
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