Review
Premiership
- 7 October 2012
out of the 8 poll choices of course? Things to consider: Prime and peak (best season).
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Best Defensive Midfielder you have ever seen
- Thread starter Review
- Start date
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
I didn't really think of Effenberg as a real DMF. I mean there was huge difference between someone like him and Gattusso. Effenberg was a playmaker and more advanced at least at the beginning.
p.s. I know who Gerd will pick.
p.s. I know who Gerd will pick.
Fernando Redondo
- Thread starter
- #3
The_Special_One
I like Unicorns
I didn't really think of Effenberg as a real DMF. I mean there was huge difference between someone like him and Gattusso. Effenberg was a playmaker and more advanced at least at the beginning.
p.s. I know who Gerd will pick.
Fernando Redondo
My pick too!
There goes my vote.
TheJinxedOne
Valar Morghulis.
Voted Roy Keane, the only two I can honestly say I remember at their best are Vieira and Keane, and so in my eyes they're equal the United Bias just tips it 
LFC Albania
Banned
Lorik Cana 
voted Davids , I always liked this guy , he was one of my favorite players !
voted Davids , I always liked this guy , he was one of my favorite players !
Kanouté
#NewEra
- 26 April 2008
is this some kind of secret ballot, guys? why don't you say the name you voted for? I don't get it 
anyway, my vote goes to the best defensive midfielder in my lifetime.... see inside the spoiler below
this thread is a nice idea but tbh, the only real defensive midfielders there are Redondo and Makelele (I know Redondo was the much more talented player). Effenberg was an advanced player as PLF said, kind of like Pirlo so I don't think he was a defensive midfielder but rather a deep-lying playmaker. Gattuso and Roy Keane were the 'fighter' type (still we can consider them as dmf, though) and Vieira, Davids and Essien were simply box-to-box midfielders who got involved in the attacking part of the game much more than the rest of the list. Yaya Toure also is this type of midfielder, as you all sure know.
Alonso, Mascherano, Rijkaard(?), Hierro, Deschamps, Dunga, Mauro Silva, Simeone, Cambiasso, Van Bommel(?), Gilberto Silva are the names who come to my mind atm if I'm to suggest some other great dmfs.
anyway, my vote goes to the best defensive midfielder in my lifetime.... see inside the spoiler below
no, not the guy on my avatar picture, see inside the spoiler on my signature
this thread is a nice idea but tbh, the only real defensive midfielders there are Redondo and Makelele (I know Redondo was the much more talented player). Effenberg was an advanced player as PLF said, kind of like Pirlo so I don't think he was a defensive midfielder but rather a deep-lying playmaker. Gattuso and Roy Keane were the 'fighter' type (still we can consider them as dmf, though) and Vieira, Davids and Essien were simply box-to-box midfielders who got involved in the attacking part of the game much more than the rest of the list. Yaya Toure also is this type of midfielder, as you all sure know.
Alonso, Mascherano, Rijkaard(?), Hierro, Deschamps, Dunga, Mauro Silva, Simeone, Cambiasso, Van Bommel(?), Gilberto Silva are the names who come to my mind atm if I'm to suggest some other great dmfs.
amineken22
*****
- 9 November 2010
Who wouldn't pick Redondo he's bay far "the example" at the post, one of my favorite players (2nd all time favorite in fact), and what he did do Manchester is bay far the most impressive thing i've seen in my lifetime.
Also like Sina said Effenberg is definitely not a DM he was more of deep-laying play-maker sort of what Pirlo is right now.
Would've loved to see a guy like Marco van Bommel in that list he's really one of the best.
Also like Sina said Effenberg is definitely not a DM he was more of deep-laying play-maker sort of what Pirlo is right now.
Would've loved to see a guy like Marco van Bommel in that list he's really one of the best.
gerd
Retired Footballer
I've voted Redondo, but i've hesitated about Makelele.
I can't see any other player who defined "his" position as much as Makelele...
IMO that is not a good list...there surely must be better contenders than that bunch (besides both Makelele and Redondo). First one who comes to my mind: Lothar Mathaus.
Must be some better Italian players than Gattuso too...
And why not Mascherano ?
I can't see any other player who defined "his" position as much as Makelele...
IMO that is not a good list...there surely must be better contenders than that bunch (besides both Makelele and Redondo). First one who comes to my mind: Lothar Mathaus.
Must be some better Italian players than Gattuso too...
And why not Mascherano ?
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
Voted Essien.
You can argue about what constitutes a DM but Essien in his prime was the best CM on there imo. He was pretty much a mix of everyone on the list. Just edges out Vieira.
Rijkaard should be on there tho
You can argue about what constitutes a DM but Essien in his prime was the best CM on there imo. He was pretty much a mix of everyone on the list. Just edges out Vieira.
Rijkaard should be on there tho
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Yeah in the Bayern team at the turn of the millenium it was really Jens Jeremies who was the defensive midfielder and Effenberg was a bit more advanced. Do you include "libero" players, it's pretty much an extinct position which you could say is an advanced center back (of a 3) who has to create attacks as well as defend, in Germany from the late 80s to early 2000s the definition between libero and defensive midfielder was very overlapped, but if you do then there is Sammer and Matthaus to consider. Eilts was pretty good as Sammer's shield too if Sammer went up the pitch Eilts (another German DM in the mid 1990s) would slot in to his defensive role. Dunga as a player was pretty decent too.
I don't think Gattuso and Essien should be in that list at all. In my oppinion Toure is much better than Gattuso, for example. What Gattuso has is an incredible charisma and the fact he's a buy who worked a lot to be there and we all love him, but in terms of quality, he's nowhere near the rest. Why not people like Deschamps or Dunga in the list then? (I wouldn't like him there but Gattuso isn't better).
Effenberg never was truly a DMF, like Xavi he was more of a CM. Essien had some seasons of brilliance, but for a very short span of time, definitely far from the top list.
In the other hand, Ronald Koeman played as a CB and as a DMF depending on the match, he averaged 12 goals per season and remains the best free kick and penalty shooter I've ever seen in my life.
And Rijkaard also played as DMF and was definitely up there with the best, as well as Matthaus or Tigana from that great France in the 80s.
Here's my list of players I've seen playing LIVE:
- Rijkaard
- Matthaus
- Koeman
- Redondo
- Vieira
- Desailly
- Makelele
- Keane
- Davids
I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of great players from the 80s, though. I'm getting old.
Effenberg never was truly a DMF, like Xavi he was more of a CM. Essien had some seasons of brilliance, but for a very short span of time, definitely far from the top list.
In the other hand, Ronald Koeman played as a CB and as a DMF depending on the match, he averaged 12 goals per season and remains the best free kick and penalty shooter I've ever seen in my life.
And Rijkaard also played as DMF and was definitely up there with the best, as well as Matthaus or Tigana from that great France in the 80s.
Here's my list of players I've seen playing LIVE:
- Rijkaard
- Matthaus
- Koeman
- Redondo
- Vieira
- Desailly
- Makelele
- Keane
- Davids
I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of great players from the 80s, though. I'm getting old.
Ambrosini is more fit to that list than Gattuso, but yeah, Gattuso added more to the team in term of charisma/character, something that is missing from Arsenal team in the recent years.
But for me, my favorite defensive midfielders are these two: Dino Baggio and Alessio Tacchinardi.
But for me, my favorite defensive midfielders are these two: Dino Baggio and Alessio Tacchinardi.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Agreed with many here, Gattuso isn't really a DM. Even De Rossi is better at being a DM than Ringhio.
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Makelele, So good, they named a position after him.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-midfielders-fashionable.html#ixzz2QINZSFYw
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-midfielders-fashionable.html#ixzz2QINZSFYw
Topaz
Programmer/TheAwesomeGem
Makelele, Essien and Redondo. It's a hard choice.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
it may be worth mentioning that almost half of those players (3 out of 8 infact) aren't defensive midfielders to begin with.
u got effenberg right.... there's still 2 more to find.
however the most awkward thing isn't the fact that 3 players who aren't defensive midfielders were listed here... everyone can make a mistake and, funnily enough, even redondo's english wikipedia page describe him as a defensive midfielder (when i realised none of u mentioned fernando was never a dmf i got curious to see if that was a common mistake, so i checked out his wiki page), anyway the most awkward thing is that those 3 players who didn't even play the position u're evaluating, actually got a total of 8 votes! wtf! it almost makes me wanna start a "best cb u ever saw" thread, and put cafu and roberto carlos in the list, just to see how many votes they get
i know i'm sounding like a jerk here, but come on guys, this is a football forum... u're supposed to know theese things.
i can understand the redondo mistake (afterall many of u probably did not saw him playing), but come on.... essien is a contemporary player and he even played in the league u guys watch the most (epl).... and u can't even tell he's not a defensive midfielder? how is that even possible!?!
anyway let me try and point u in the right direction. theese are actual defensive midfielders: cambiasso, dunga, rijkaard, mauro silva, matthaus, desailly, deschamps, dino baggio, emerson, simeone. some might also include paulo silva, but that would be a tricky one, as he was part defensive midfielder, part deep-lying playmaker.
also from review's list, makelele, keane, vieira, davids and gattuso definitely qualify as "defensive midfielders".
p.s.
@Gerd: come on man, redondo is even one of your all-time favourite players! u of all people should know he was a "builder" and not a "destroyer". fernando was as much a defensive midfielder as, say, giannini or guardiola, or xabi alonso or albertini. sure he wasn't a "pure playmaker", such as pirlo or xavi, and yes he had several arrows in his quiver, but still describing him as a defensive midfielder would be downright unappropriate and also kinda insulting (not that i don't respect defensive midfielders, of course).
anyway don't worry, we'll never tell him
u got effenberg right.... there's still 2 more to find.
however the most awkward thing isn't the fact that 3 players who aren't defensive midfielders were listed here... everyone can make a mistake and, funnily enough, even redondo's english wikipedia page describe him as a defensive midfielder (when i realised none of u mentioned fernando was never a dmf i got curious to see if that was a common mistake, so i checked out his wiki page), anyway the most awkward thing is that those 3 players who didn't even play the position u're evaluating, actually got a total of 8 votes! wtf! it almost makes me wanna start a "best cb u ever saw" thread, and put cafu and roberto carlos in the list, just to see how many votes they get
i know i'm sounding like a jerk here, but come on guys, this is a football forum... u're supposed to know theese things.
i can understand the redondo mistake (afterall many of u probably did not saw him playing), but come on.... essien is a contemporary player and he even played in the league u guys watch the most (epl).... and u can't even tell he's not a defensive midfielder? how is that even possible!?!
anyway let me try and point u in the right direction. theese are actual defensive midfielders: cambiasso, dunga, rijkaard, mauro silva, matthaus, desailly, deschamps, dino baggio, emerson, simeone. some might also include paulo silva, but that would be a tricky one, as he was part defensive midfielder, part deep-lying playmaker.
also from review's list, makelele, keane, vieira, davids and gattuso definitely qualify as "defensive midfielders".
p.s.
@Gerd: come on man, redondo is even one of your all-time favourite players! u of all people should know he was a "builder" and not a "destroyer". fernando was as much a defensive midfielder as, say, giannini or guardiola, or xabi alonso or albertini. sure he wasn't a "pure playmaker", such as pirlo or xavi, and yes he had several arrows in his quiver, but still describing him as a defensive midfielder would be downright unappropriate and also kinda insulting (not that i don't respect defensive midfielders, of course).
anyway don't worry, we'll never tell him
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LFC Albania
Banned
you hurt our feelings buddy 
amineken22
*****
- 9 November 2010
Don't know what you're talking about Ben, Redondo is definitely a DM, taking by your defintion a DM is supposed to destroy play only or make simple passes? Come on man! I've watched Redondo from 98 till he retired when i was younger and for the past five months i've been watching matches from the 2000-2002 period and trust me you're wrong.
I can give you several examples, not only he cut the opposite team offense godly, but he stayed back for most of the game unless he saw some opportunity for a 1-2 or manged to sneak on them defences.
BTW Guardiola was definitely a DM too
I can give you several examples, not only he cut the opposite team offense godly, but he stayed back for most of the game unless he saw some opportunity for a 1-2 or manged to sneak on them defences.
BTW Guardiola was definitely a DM too
Kanouté
#NewEra
- 26 April 2008
well, these are my thoughts about certain players mentioned here.
keane: wasn't really a dmf but was the one with the defending task in united's midfield (ehm.. scholes was playing next to him, you know). so yes, can be considered as dmf.
vieira: not a dmf in my eyes. he was quality at defending/destroying the attacks whenever he had the chance but he wasn't as solely a defensive player. in arsenal it was gilberto silva, in national team it was deschamps and then makelele. vieira's style was almost identical to what yaya toure's is at city. so, a big no from me.
davids: he was quite the epitome of the 'destroyer' type mf, but from what I've seen in Juve, it was tacchinardi was given the defensive task and davids was almost everywhere on the pitch. imo, a defensive mf is not such an aggressive player but a player of mainly the holding position in middle of the park (I mean to say he's not a holding mf, here). he was more of a central midfielder so I say no again. also, he was known to be an attacking midfielder in his ajax days.
essien: this really doesn't need a big explanation. if you got my view, you'd know why I say he's not a dmf.
redondo: wish that damn injury never happened cuz by so I would never have missed the chance of watching one of the finest players of his generation. anyway, I'll speak with what I've seen from him in some compilation videos. yes, he was extremely talented at technical part of the game but he seemt to be great at defending and destroying, too. I said the same about Davids and Vieira, but the case is different for Redondo. he was playing in the position where defensive mfs play and he was brilliant at defensive duties (unlike similar technicians like pirlo or effenberg). so he matches with my criteria on defensive midfielders and I say yes for him.
gattuso: can always draw comparisons with davids but he was pretty much shitty at attacking. since, it wasn't pirlo or seedorf assigned to that position in Milan or in Italy NT, I say yes, for Gattuso. quite the similar case with keane's.
alonso and busquets: same with redondo. they're pretty good at defending and they're playing in that position, no matter how they're talented at 'creating'. so yes, for them.
emerson: I don't clearly remember about his roma days (not that I'm that young but I just don't do and don't know why) but in juve and real, I remember him being a player better at creating than defending, also not playing in the dmf position (it was diarra in real if I'm not wrong) but in a more central position. similarly with what I think about vieira, I say no.
cambiasso, makelele, mascherano, deschamps, dunga, mauro silva (extremely underrated today), simeone, hierro(before he turned to be a center-back), gilberto silva, desailly, tacchinardi are certainly some nice examples of dmf position and don't even need to be discussed about it, imo.
there are some other players mentioned here I couldn't share my view about but that's because I really don't know much about them.
can't really disagree with it (I know you're joking, though). lo zio is one of my favorite posters on the forum and I absolutely don't think he meant to be arrogant by any means, but can't really say that I enjoyed reading his last post (this might be for the first time).
oh and btw, lo zio, you meant to say paulo sousa in your fourth paragraph, I guess.
keane: wasn't really a dmf but was the one with the defending task in united's midfield (ehm.. scholes was playing next to him, you know). so yes, can be considered as dmf.
vieira: not a dmf in my eyes. he was quality at defending/destroying the attacks whenever he had the chance but he wasn't as solely a defensive player. in arsenal it was gilberto silva, in national team it was deschamps and then makelele. vieira's style was almost identical to what yaya toure's is at city. so, a big no from me.
davids: he was quite the epitome of the 'destroyer' type mf, but from what I've seen in Juve, it was tacchinardi was given the defensive task and davids was almost everywhere on the pitch. imo, a defensive mf is not such an aggressive player but a player of mainly the holding position in middle of the park (I mean to say he's not a holding mf, here). he was more of a central midfielder so I say no again. also, he was known to be an attacking midfielder in his ajax days.
essien: this really doesn't need a big explanation. if you got my view, you'd know why I say he's not a dmf.
redondo: wish that damn injury never happened cuz by so I would never have missed the chance of watching one of the finest players of his generation. anyway, I'll speak with what I've seen from him in some compilation videos. yes, he was extremely talented at technical part of the game but he seemt to be great at defending and destroying, too. I said the same about Davids and Vieira, but the case is different for Redondo. he was playing in the position where defensive mfs play and he was brilliant at defensive duties (unlike similar technicians like pirlo or effenberg). so he matches with my criteria on defensive midfielders and I say yes for him.
gattuso: can always draw comparisons with davids but he was pretty much shitty at attacking. since, it wasn't pirlo or seedorf assigned to that position in Milan or in Italy NT, I say yes, for Gattuso. quite the similar case with keane's.
alonso and busquets: same with redondo. they're pretty good at defending and they're playing in that position, no matter how they're talented at 'creating'. so yes, for them.
emerson: I don't clearly remember about his roma days (not that I'm that young but I just don't do and don't know why) but in juve and real, I remember him being a player better at creating than defending, also not playing in the dmf position (it was diarra in real if I'm not wrong) but in a more central position. similarly with what I think about vieira, I say no.
cambiasso, makelele, mascherano, deschamps, dunga, mauro silva (extremely underrated today), simeone, hierro(before he turned to be a center-back), gilberto silva, desailly, tacchinardi are certainly some nice examples of dmf position and don't even need to be discussed about it, imo.
there are some other players mentioned here I couldn't share my view about but that's because I really don't know much about them.
you hurt our feelings buddy
can't really disagree with it (I know you're joking, though). lo zio is one of my favorite posters on the forum and I absolutely don't think he meant to be arrogant by any means, but can't really say that I enjoyed reading his last post (this might be for the first time).
oh and btw, lo zio, you meant to say paulo sousa in your fourth paragraph, I guess.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
not necessarily. some of the other players i mentioned (such as matthaus, cambiasso, rijkaard and emerson) had very good vision and passing, infact, but their contribution to the game still justifies the label "defensive midfielder".
still, i believe a defensive midfielder is a midfielder focused mainly on defensive duties (wich was definitely not the case with the likes of guardiola and redondo).
then i guess we just have a different idea of what a defensive midfielder isamineken22 said:
keep in mind that in italian we use very specific labels for every kind of central midfielder (mediano, metodista, regista....) and we never really say "centrocampista difensivo" (wich would be the litteral translation of defensive midfielder).
so perhaps i just don't have a good grasp on what a defensive midfielder really is in english (wich would actually also explain why redondo's wiki page says he was a defensive midfielder, or why most of u seem to refer to xabi alonso as a defensive midfielder)
Kanoute said:
yeah..... paulo silva.... where did that come from i was just messing with u guys (wich is why i even apologised for sounding like a jerk)... i certainly didn't mean to insult any of ukanoute said:
anyway, i apologise for my annoingly condescending nature
it's the aspect of my character i hate the most, but, despite my efforts, i don't seem to be working on it enough to eradicate it.
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amineken22
*****
- 9 November 2010
I wonder though, I don't know if you seen Toninho Cerezo play (back in his time) how would you classify him as: DM? or CM? or a little bit of both. I really want to know what's your definetion of a DM, you've seen more football than I did and i'm really intressed on your take here.
Also now-a-days Cambiasso doesn't really focus that much on his defensive duties and he's a more of all round player (even more offensive too) do you still consider him as DM?
Also now-a-days Cambiasso doesn't really focus that much on his defensive duties and he's a more of all round player (even more offensive too) do you still consider him as DM?
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To add to the confusion, I will say that in Spain you will call "4" to the Guardiola type of deep laying builder, and "Pivote defensivo" to anyone playing in the exact same position but with mainly deffensive duties.
When I played at Barcelona, too many years ago, it was called a "Libero por delante de la defensa", translating to a "Sweeper before the defenders".
So, following this, Busquets plays as a "4" while Alonso is a "Pivote defensivo" for most of the people. The funny thing is that they do practically the same, in the same position and in the Ntional Team they play together.
I think the confusion comes from different cultures regarding football in different ways.
We should work on a definition of DMF broad enough so we could all (more or less) agree.
A broad definition of DMF should be that of a Midfielder who plays between the rest of midfielders and defenders, and his main task is to defend and press the opponent strikers in midfield with the aim of disrupting the opponents play, or help the CBs as a last resort.
There are players who played as DMF and at the same time they had great skills in passing and ended up attacking: Rijkaard, Matthaus... and to me Redondo. Not only by his time at Madrid, but also for what he did at Tenerife for years and his role in the national team. I definitely would put him in the very short list of genius that were so good that ended up disguising that their role was mainly a tactical one.
Accepting this definition, clearly people like Effenberg and Guardiola should be considered Deep playmakers instead of DMFs, because their role was not a defensive one.
You can have doubts about Keane and Davids being DMFs. They weren't pure DMFs, actually, but for most of their career they acted as DMFs even if they covered more ground, but that was also because of their capability to recover and big stamina. In essence, they role was that of a DMF wherever they were. Mmmm, it can be tricky, right?
Zio: How could I forget Mauro Silva? One of the finest there, without a doubt.
When I played at Barcelona, too many years ago, it was called a "Libero por delante de la defensa", translating to a "Sweeper before the defenders".
So, following this, Busquets plays as a "4" while Alonso is a "Pivote defensivo" for most of the people. The funny thing is that they do practically the same, in the same position and in the Ntional Team they play together.
I think the confusion comes from different cultures regarding football in different ways.
We should work on a definition of DMF broad enough so we could all (more or less) agree.
A broad definition of DMF should be that of a Midfielder who plays between the rest of midfielders and defenders, and his main task is to defend and press the opponent strikers in midfield with the aim of disrupting the opponents play, or help the CBs as a last resort.
There are players who played as DMF and at the same time they had great skills in passing and ended up attacking: Rijkaard, Matthaus... and to me Redondo. Not only by his time at Madrid, but also for what he did at Tenerife for years and his role in the national team. I definitely would put him in the very short list of genius that were so good that ended up disguising that their role was mainly a tactical one.
Accepting this definition, clearly people like Effenberg and Guardiola should be considered Deep playmakers instead of DMFs, because their role was not a defensive one.
You can have doubts about Keane and Davids being DMFs. They weren't pure DMFs, actually, but for most of their career they acted as DMFs even if they covered more ground, but that was also because of their capability to recover and big stamina. In essence, they role was that of a DMF wherever they were. Mmmm, it can be tricky, right?
Zio: How could I forget Mauro Silva? One of the finest there, without a doubt.
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Kanouté
#NewEra
- 26 April 2008
@lo zio,
mate, most of us here think that alonso and redondo are dmf because they're good at defending besides their creativity and playmaking skills. for example, pirlo is playing in the same place but he makes only a little contribution to defence. I know you guys in italian refer him as a regista, which we translate as deep-lying playmaker (or maybe not, do regista's have defensive qualities too? I don't know). but alonso and redondo aren't just that. on another note, seemingly you think that vieira and davids are dmf but they're not mainly focused on defence which is your measure for dmfs as you said above. vieira was very fine at making plays and davids was a very aggresively attacking player when his teams had the possesion.
not that I ever mean to say you're not aware of those. maybe you could have posted another great piece about the italian way of classifying the football positions, especially the midfielders. so we can clearly know about your criteria on this matter.
btw, you never need to apologize. of course there will be times you act like that (act like a smarty pants, I mean,
). nobody's meant to be perfect, though internet is full of those nobodies.
cheers, pal.
p.s. seems like some troll put me on his ignore list. how nice
mate, most of us here think that alonso and redondo are dmf because they're good at defending besides their creativity and playmaking skills. for example, pirlo is playing in the same place but he makes only a little contribution to defence. I know you guys in italian refer him as a regista, which we translate as deep-lying playmaker (or maybe not, do regista's have defensive qualities too? I don't know). but alonso and redondo aren't just that. on another note, seemingly you think that vieira and davids are dmf but they're not mainly focused on defence which is your measure for dmfs as you said above. vieira was very fine at making plays and davids was a very aggresively attacking player when his teams had the possesion.
not that I ever mean to say you're not aware of those. maybe you could have posted another great piece about the italian way of classifying the football positions, especially the midfielders.
so we can clearly know about your criteria on this matter.btw, you never need to apologize. of course there will be times you act like that (act like a smarty pants, I mean,
). nobody's meant to be perfect, though internet is full of those nobodies. cheers, pal.
p.s. seems like some troll put me on his ignore list. how nice
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gerd
Retired Footballer
LOL
Ben,
I was always convinced Fernando Redondo was a DMF. But i can see where you are coming from. Just like Xabi Alonso (another great player who i consider a DMF) he was also very good at the offensive build-up and this from a deeper position.
If only i had more notions about tactics, i would be able to discuss this. I see it like this. There is a difference between the (initial) position of a player and the role he plays.
The best example i can find are most current days and "recent" SB's (full backs in English): players like Maldini, Cafu, Dani Alves, Robert Carlos are defenders but were/are also attackers.
IMO Fernando Redondo's position was DMF, but his role was that of some sort of playmaker before the defense. One of these days i will read the best book i've ever read about tacticts: Inverting the Pyramid (by Jonathan Wilson) and i hope he mentions Redondo and what he writes about him. By the way, this book is translated in Italian and it just got an award as best football book in Italy. This is a must read for somebody like you Ben...
Any way, if i'm wrong, don't mention it to Fernando, he would be gutted...
Ben,
I was always convinced Fernando Redondo was a DMF. But i can see where you are coming from. Just like Xabi Alonso (another great player who i consider a DMF) he was also very good at the offensive build-up and this from a deeper position.
If only i had more notions about tactics, i would be able to discuss this. I see it like this. There is a difference between the (initial) position of a player and the role he plays.
The best example i can find are most current days and "recent" SB's (full backs in English): players like Maldini, Cafu, Dani Alves, Robert Carlos are defenders but were/are also attackers.
IMO Fernando Redondo's position was DMF, but his role was that of some sort of playmaker before the defense. One of these days i will read the best book i've ever read about tacticts: Inverting the Pyramid (by Jonathan Wilson) and i hope he mentions Redondo and what he writes about him. By the way, this book is translated in Italian and it just got an award as best football book in Italy. This is a must read for somebody like you Ben...
Any way, if i'm wrong, don't mention it to Fernando, he would be gutted...
Kanouté
#NewEra
- 26 April 2008
Emmanuel Petit was another decent DMF who's worth mentioning, I think. the defensive partner of Vieira in Arsenal's midfield, before Gilberto Silva filled that void after his departure.
amineken22
*****
- 9 November 2010
Seems everybody got his own definition of role here and it's really confusing (Like Gerd talking about Wing-backs being Side-backs) We should have some sort of come ground here, otherwise it's like everyone rambling their own way.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
good luck with that!
as for toninho cerezo, of course i remember him... i loved that crazy guy! as for his role he was a "mediano di spinta"... sorry for using the italian word, but i really have no idea how to translate that... a mediano di spinta is something in between, a part defensive midfielder, part box to box midfielder.
may i ask u how old are u amineken? if u remember toninho we probably have the same age.
i haven't watched much of inter lately, so i can't really tell. however when i referred to him as a dm i was considering his prime (wich imo is the most appropriate moment to judge a player's role)... this is what i do with every player. for instance i also usually refer to maldini as a leftback, even though he played as a cb in his last years... and for the same reason i also consider matthaus as a defensive midfielder (even though he played often as a cb in his last years).amineken said:
davids was a bit of a jack of all trades, thanks to his insane energy, but yes, i'd say that in his prime, his main focus was on the defensive aspect in the game.Kanoute said:
as for vieira, he's what we call a "metodista". again, this is another word that has not proper translation in english, as a metodista is a defensive midfielder who also builds up plays. the main difference between a metodista and a deep-lying playmaker (or regista, in italian) is that deep-lying playmakers are much more creative in their game and do not contribute to the defensive phase of the game as much as metodistas (wich is why i guess a metodista would fall into the defensive midfielder category in english). de rossi is another example of metodista, as well as cambiasso. let's put it like this: deep lying playmakers (registi) are "artists" they light up the team and provide an element of unpredictability (provided their teammates offer enough off the ball movement), whereas metodisti are more like architects, as they're not as creative as deep lying playmakers, but still are able to give their teams some "structure" and "geometry" with their vision , their timing and their passing game.
but a deep-lying playmaker occupies exactly that same spot (just ahead of the defense). it all comes down to how u interpretate your role on the pitch, rather than the portion of the pitch u occupy.Gerd said:
however keep in mind i haven't watched redondo in ages (since his milan days), so perhaps i'm the one who's not remembering well what player he was, afterall.
as for inverting the pyramid, i actually bought the book (the original english version) a couple of years ago (when u first suggested it to me), but still haven't read it (wich is not unusual for me. i don't have as much free time as i used to have years ago, but i still spend a shitload of money on books every month, so some of em end up forgotten on some shelf). however now that u reminded me of it, i'm gonna read it as soon as i finish the one i'm currently reading
LFC Albania
Banned
amineken22
*****
- 9 November 2010
I'll be turning 21 this October, I haven't seen him live but i've got tons of classic football stuff on my PC(Documentary, articles, full matches, interviews) mainly because of my job i get to have some rare footage the public aren't allowed to access usually.
Forgot to say: according to the way you describe the positions in your reply, i now consider Redondo as a Metodisti
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